12 March 2008 - Afternoon session
19 (Jury present)
20 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: I am sorry you have been kept
21 a little longer than I had anticipated, but it is
22 a difficult to be precise about conversations of this
23 kind.
24 MR HOUGH: Sir, could we drag Inspector Carpenter back to
25 the witness box for a very short time?
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1 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes.
2 MR HOUGH: Inspector, I am going to deal now with
3 the statement of Christophe Lascaux who is another eye
4 witness to the journey, again, somebody who was summoned
5 to give evidence but did not attend and therefore his
6 statement is being proved, not as uncontroversial but as
7 hearsay.
8 Evidence relating to MR CHRISTOPHE LASCAUX
9 Questions from MR HOUGH
10 MR HOUGH: This is a statement that was in the French
11 dossier and which came to the Coroner's secretariat that
12 way.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. This is a statement dated 31st August 1997 at
15 15.30 hours, so at half past 3 on the afternoon of the
16 Sunday. M Lascaux gives his particulars and then says
17 this:
18 "I came to see you of my own accord early this
19 afternoon, after seeing the television news report on
20 the death of Princess Diana. On seeing the pictures of
21 the scene, I realised that the accident I saw last night
22 was the one involving her. It was exactly 00.33 hours
23 by the clock in my vehicle as I was driving on the right
24 bank in the direction of the Place de la Concorde in
25 the 16th arrondissement."
123
1 Pausing there, either his memory is out by ten
2 minutes or his clock is out by ten minutes?
3 A. That is right.
4 Q. "I had just entered the underpass in question and had
5 fully emerged and was beginning to take the horizontal
6 bend before the big straight which leads to Place de
7 la Concorde. I saw a large black Mercedes arriving in
8 the other direction at very high speed. What struck me
9 was that it was swerving or, to be more precise, it was
10 doing a wide zigzag. I could also see that it was at
11 full throttle because the front of the car was tilted
12 slightly upwards which typically occurs under full
13 power. I could not see anyone inside the car as things
14 happened so quickly.
15 "My first reaction was that it must be a madman.
16 I kept on watching it in my left rearview mirror and saw
17 it go down into the underpass. Almost immediately
18 I heard a big noise and then a loud screeching of tyres
19 but not braking and then finally a second loud impact.
20 These three sounds that I heard came almost immediately,
21 one after the other.
22 "In reply to your question: when I heard the noises
23 that I have just described, I had already passed two
24 motorbikes going in the other direction. I cannot
25 provide any information about these two machines, as
124
1 I saw them from behind. I do not recall seeing any
2 other group of vehicles, either bikes or cars.
3 I thought that there had been an accident but that in
4 any event, on that fast section of road where U-turns
5 are not possible, people arriving immediately behind
6 the car would call the emergency services.
7 "In reply to your question: I cannot say what
8 the distance must have been between the Mercedes and
9 the two motorcycles. I was doing 60 kilometres an hour
10 and from the opposite direction, it is difficult to make
11 such an estimation, especially when you are taken by
12 surprise.
13 "The incident that I have just described in my
14 opinion only lasted one or two seconds, such was
15 the speed."
16 And then M Lascaux confirms and signs his statement.
17 I do not have any questions about that, but others may.
18 Thank you.
19 MR MANSFIELD: No thank you.
20 Questions from MR CROXFORD
21 MR CROXFORD: Just a couple.
22 Inspector, on any view, one or two seconds, this
23 could be described as a fleeting glance for Mr Lascaux
24 going the opposite direction?
25 A. I think -- was he saying one or two seconds from first
125
1 seeing it to the crash?
2 Q. It is difficult to know but if it is, that would be very
3 much the outside of what he saw, rather than what he saw
4 in the movement of the Mercedes?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Next, please, could you look in the paparazzi bundle at
7 page 40? Because Mr Lascaux describes having seen
8 the Mercedes travelling in the opposite direction when
9 he, Mr Lascaux, was I think in a position where he had
10 fully reemerged from the tunnel and was beginning to
11 take the horizontal bend. Do you remember that in
12 the evidence just read to you?
13 A. Yes, I was not quite sure where he was saying he was.
14 Q. Let's try and work it out. If we look at page 40 here,
15 of course, Mr Lascaux would have been coming towards
16 the photographer on the other side of the concrete
17 dividing wall, wouldn't he?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. If we look at the photograph showing the carriageway
20 that we have been interested in principally, so far, it
21 would appear that the horizontal ended somewhere in
22 the middle part of the foreground between the cameraman
23 and the entrance to the Alma Tunnel, didn't it?
24 A. Yes -- I am not sure, is he not saying he is not still
25 in the tunnel, about to come out.
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1 Q. It may be difficult and you may be ahead of me,
2 Mr Carpenter, but if one is looking to see where the end
3 of the horizontal might be, it might be somewhere,
4 perhaps, behind -- do you see on the right-hand side
5 some what look like illuminated bollards and then
6 a parked police vehicle? Somewhere, perhaps slightly
7 nearer to the photographer but in that area,
8 the carriageway begins to slope down, doesn't it?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So it would be horizontal until then and then sloping
11 after that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. If one were to assume that the other side of the
14 concrete wall is similar as to where the horizontal is
15 and the slope, then when Mr Lascaux drove in
16 the opposite direction and began to take the bend on the
17 horizontal, apart from the fact of him having to drive,
18 his view would have been obstructed by this concrete
19 wall, wouldn't it?
20 A. If he was out of the tunnel, it would be, yes.
21 Q. And of course he would have been, as would be for any
22 motorist, sitting down rather lower in his car and
23 therefore it is likely that his view would have been
24 more obscured than the cameraman standing up taking the
25 eye level view that we see here at page 40?
127
1 A. Yes. I have seen photographs before which seem to give
2 you the impression that that side of the road is
3 slightly raised, as opposed to this side. That is not
4 a certainty. It is just from my memory.
5 Q. Just to complete on this point: if you turn back to
6 page 38, we can see that that wall in fact seems to
7 taper down on the horizontal, as one gets closer to
8 the Alexandre III tunnel --
9 A. Sorry, the Alma?
10 Q. No, no. As one gets further away from the Alma and the
11 Alexandre III, the position of the photographer in
12 number 38, the wall gradually tapers down until it --
13 A. Yes, I see what you mean.
14 Q. Yes?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. One can see here on the-left hand carriageway how
17 the road apparently slips away?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. The wall there going on and getting slightly higher and
20 equally, insofar as one can judge, page 39 similarly
21 shows that central wall, doesn't it?
22 A. It does, yes.
23 MR CROXFORD: Thank you very much, inspector.
24 MR HORWELL: No thank you.
25 MR HOUGH: Nothing further for me.
128
1 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you very much, Inspector,
2 that is it.
3 MR BURNETT: Back to mobile phones and back to Mr Stokes, if
4 we may.
5 MR MARK STOKES (recalled)
6 Questions from MR BURNETT (continued)
7 MR BURNETT: Now, Mr Stokes, you are still on oath from last
8 week and as the ladies and gentlemen of the jury will
9 remember, there was some additional evidence that you
10 were going to give us concerning investigations into
11 British related calls that appear in the French
12 documents that we were talking about last week.
13 A. Yes, indeed.
14 Q. Now, I think we had finished on -- was it Thursday?
15 A. Yes, it was.
16 Q. And you had told the jury that you had looked for
17 evidence of calls to or from a number of mobile phones
18 and I think landlines associated with the Andanson
19 family and found nothing.
20 A. That is correct. Yes.
21 Q. Now, can I turn then to the question of British-related
22 calls? Have you produced an exhibit called MAS12A,
23 which will help illustrate that aspect of your evidence?
24 A. Yes, I have.
25 Q. I wonder if copies of that might be made available to
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1 the jury now? Again, ladies and gentlemen, it is in an
2 A3 form and so it is quite large.
3 It has been reduced, aha. In which case I hope that
4 it is possible for you to read it okay.
5 Mr Stokes, first of all, do the four pages that
6 we have in this exhibit extract from the 90-page French
7 document all calls with a British dimension attributed
8 by the French investigators to area A; that is to say
9 Alma Tunnel?
10 A. Yes, that is correct.
11 Q. And so, looking at the first page of this exhibit as an
12 example, in the last column one sees they are all As for
13 Alma?
14 A. Yes, they are.
15 Q. But otherwise, the form of this table is the same as
16 the table that we saw last week, so, just running across
17 if we may to re-familiarise everybody, we have the time,
18 which speaks for itself?
19 A. Yes, we do.
20 Q. The phone number for the A party, if it is known?
21 A. Yes indeed.
22 Q. And we will see in a minute that there are a few where
23 the phone number is not recorded in the French material?
24 A. That is correct.
25 Q. Then the subscriber identification as before of
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1 the A party, again if known?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And we will see, as we go through it, that there are
4 calls in respect of which the subscriber information is
5 not known?
6 A. That is correct.
7 Q. Then we have phone number B party?
8 A. Yes, indeed.
9 Q. Now, there is an extra column here, current UK telephone
10 number. Is that simply because a number of both mobile
11 and landline numbers have changed since 1997?
12 A. Yes, I think most of us who are old enough will be aware
13 that there have been several changes in codes over
14 the ten-year period.
15 Q. For landlines, 0207 and 0208 is a good example, but
16 there have also been changes in mobile numbers as well?
17 A. Yes, there have.
18 Q. And then there is the B party identified, if known, and
19 then you have a column which is comments on B party?
20 A. That is correct.
21 Q. And then again, in the next column, incoming or outgoing
22 and that refers back to the A party as before?
23 A. Yes, it does.
24 Q. Now, in compiling this information, is it right that you
25 have had assistance from a number of other Metropolitan
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1 Police officers who are acting as coroner's officers?
2 A. That is correct. Yes.
3 Q. And you will be able to explain the fruits of their
4 investigations which appear in these columns?
5 A. Yes, indeed.
6 Q. All right. Well now, can we start with the first three
7 calls which were made, am I right in assuming, from
8 a Vodafone mobile in Paris?
9 A. Yes, they were.
10 Q. To a mobile telephone number registered in
11 the United Kingdom?
12 A. That is correct, yes.
13 Q. Now, we can see that those first three calls have
14 a question mark in the phone number of the phone from
15 which the call was made in Paris, but nonetheless
16 identifies the phone in each respect as a Vodafone
17 telephone?
18 A. Yes, it appears the French officers have been able to
19 identify, although there are no phone numbers actually
20 listed against them, on the French documentation.
21 Q. And that same British number telephoned by that Vodafone
22 telephone appears four more times in this schedule, does
23 it not?
24 A. That is correct.
25 Q. So if one turns the page to page 2, we see a call at
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1 00.11.26?
2 A. That is correct. Yes.
3 Q. And then on page 3, we see three more calls, one at
4 00.19.21, the second at 00.23.07 and the third at --
5 I am so sorry, it is only two more calls.
6 A. Yes, you are right. Two more.
7 Q. Thank you. Are you able to explain how it is that
8 the French investigators appear to have had information
9 that identifies the phone from which the call was made
10 as a Vodafone phone, but without the number?
11 A. No. We can only assume they must have had a number to
12 have a code to know which network; there was a UK
13 network that that mobile was on and they have just
14 replaced it with a question mark because they could not
15 get any further information regarding that subscriber
16 because it was a UK subscriber.
17 Q. Now, if we look at the third of the calls on page 3,
18 the one I initially was confused about, that also
19 appears to be a Vodafone call from an unknown number,
20 but this time to a telephone number in the
21 United Kingdom which you have been able to track down?
22 A. That is correct, yes.
23 Q. So, it is not only in respect of calls to the number
24 ending 55555 that this non-identification of
25 the outgoing telephone arises?
133
1 A. That is correct.
2 Q. In fact, is there a pattern that emerges when one looks
3 at all the 90 pages with the many hundreds of telephone
4 calls to show what type of phone call the French
5 authorities did not record the outgoing number?
6 A. Yes, from my analysis, all of the ones with a question
7 mark are all mobile phones from other countries that
8 appear to be roaming in Paris at that time, that is
9 between midnight and 1 o'clock.
10 Q. Am I right in thinking that in addition to the seven
11 question marks we see on this chart, there are another
12 40 in the French 90-page document?
13 A. Yes, there are.
14 Q. And quite a number of those are Vodafone, as it happens,
15 a total of 15; is that right?
16 A. That is correct, yes.
17 Q. And the others are concerned with mobile networks that
18 come from Sweden?
19 A. That is correct, yes.
20 Q. Austria?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Portugal?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Switzerland?
25 A. Yes.
134
1 Q. Italy?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Cellnet, which is another British one?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. Bahrain?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. The Netherlands?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Luxembourg?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Spain?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Only one more, Qatar?
14 A. Yes, indeed.
15 Q. So, although you are not able to explain why the French
16 authorities do not have these outgoing telephone
17 numbers, there is a clear pattern that they simply do
18 not have them or recorded them in connection with
19 foreign-registered mobile phones?
20 A. I believe they must have had a number at some point, but
21 they are not recorded on the documentation that we have
22 had.
23 Q. Returning then to the exhibit, if we may, and just
24 looking at the first three again, now we see that the
25 phone number called -- ladies and gentlemen, this is
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1 the B party -- was 44585355555?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Now, 44 represents the international dialling code for
4 the United Kingdom; is that right?
5 A. Yes, it does.
6 Q. And the number called was a mobile telephone number?
7 A. Yes, in fact what we would term a golden number in the
8 UK, because it ends with five 5s.
9 Q. So those are popular for some reason, are they?
10 A. You have to go and buy them and they cost you money.
11 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: What is the advantage of them?
12 A. Easy to remember, people want them.
13 MR BURNETT: I will not pursue that any more. I am sure
14 there are bound to be numbers and luck and so forth.
15 Then there is the current telephone number, that
16 simply recognises that the number has since changed?
17 A. Yes, the code on the front has changed.
18 Q. We then in the "Identification of Subscriber" column
19 have the name Husni Shaban and an address, which I will
20 not read out. Is this a representation of who
21 the subscriber was in August 1997?
22 A. Yes, it is.
23 Q. And was that detail obtained from Vodafone?
24 A. Yes, it was.
25 Q. There is then a comment against Mr Husni Shaban's name,
136
1 user, Mr Talal Al Rasheed, now deceased, in Cannes.
2 What does that mean?
3 A. Yes, Mr Shaban was asked to put his phone number in his
4 name so that all the bills and accounts would come to
5 Mr Shaban but the actual user was Mr Rasheed who
6 subsequently, unfortunately, is deceased, but he was
7 the user of the phone.
8 Q. And he was in Cannes at the time?
9 A. Yes, he was.
10 Q. Has that information been provided to police officers
11 acting as coroner's officers by Mr Shaban; in other
12 words, has he been seen to get that information?
13 A. Yes, he has.
14 Q. So that is that phone. In short, registered to
15 Mr Shaban in London but being used by Mr Rasheed at the
16 time in Cannes?
17 A. That is correct.
18 Q. Now, moving on, the fourth one we see that both
19 subscriber at the French end and at the British end have
20 been identified and the user of the telephone cannot
21 remember the call?
22 A. That is correct.
23 Q. Perhaps it is not altogether surprising, having been
24 asked about it ten and a half years after the event.
25 But anyway, the subscribers at both ends have been
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1 identified?
2 A. Yes, they have.
3 Q. Running down these. The next one at 00.09.21, Alcatel
4 is a well-known engineering company, I think?
5 A. And telephone company.
6 Q. And telephone company, it has many interests. The
7 details there, that the B party was in Paris socialising
8 and made lots of calls?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Do you know how that information was obtained or you are
11 not sure?
12 A. Yes, I do. Officers in this case actually phoned that
13 number and this is the person that answered the phone
14 who has had that number for the past ten years and due
15 to the circumstances remembers where they were on the
16 night.
17 Q. We see next, the first of a large number of calls.
18 Received -- that is to say incoming -- to a Mr Mohamed
19 in the Avenue Marceau. Now, of course,
20 the Avenue Marceau is very close to the scene of the
21 crash, is it not?
22 A. I will take your word for that.
23 Q. The jury have seen the maps.
24 And the note is:
25 "There is currently a restaurant trading from these
138
1 premises."
2 That is to say the address at which the phone was
3 registered; is that right?
4 A. Well, where the user's address was identified.
5 Q. "This address is close to the crash scene. The calls
6 listed are from the UK mobile into the French number."
7 A. That is correct, yes.
8 Q. So that is as much as one knows about those associated
9 with Mr Mohamed.
10 Then, over the page, the first three calls are calls
11 which are covered by evidence that you have already
12 given; that is to say Mr Mohamed or the phone associated
13 with Mr Shaban?
14 A. That is correct.
15 Q. We then he see a phone that is registered to a Saudi
16 Prince?
17 A. Yes, indeed.
18 Q. There is then another one for Mr Mohamed and then
19 the bottom one on that page, the outgoing mobile
20 registered to a French company?
21 A. Yes, indeed.
22 Q. And the B party, that is the person called has been
23 traced?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. She is a businesswoman, cannot remember the call but had
139
1 business in Paris.
2 A. That is correct.
3 Q. And she does not wish to give her name and her address
4 and other details.
5 If we turn the page, we have another one, from
6 the Vodafone --
7 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: I am not sure that I have
8 the same document here, have I?
9 A. Sir there is an MS --
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: I do not have 12A, I have been
11 given 12 again. (Handed) Thank you.
12 MR BURNETT: Page 3, the first of the calls there is another
13 one to the mobile in Cannes, registered to Mr Shaban.
14 A. That is correct.
15 Q. The next one is, it would appear, another Saudi prince?
16 A. Yes, indeed.
17 Q. Then we have another one to Mr Shaban's mobile?
18 A. Yes, indeed.
19 Q. Then we have at 00.27 a call from a Vodafone to
20 a British number?
21 A. That is correct.
22 Q. And the note there is the owners of the business whose
23 number it was have a home in Paris close to the crash
24 and other representatives from the company stay at
25 the George V which is nearby?
140
1 A. That is correct.
2 Q. And that is the best information they were able to give;
3 is that right?
4 Then the next call the jury have already heard
5 about, that is M Guizard to Mr Blumire in England and
6 then last, if we can just go over the page, it is quite
7 a lot later but we have a lady phoning, whose name is
8 there, to someone in London who was a diplomatic driver
9 on his way to the United Kingdom to Paris who received
10 many calls?
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. So that is the totality of the calls that have a British
13 link and one end or the other represented on the chart?
14 A. Yes and were in the vicinity of the Alma Tunnel as
15 referenced by the French documents.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 Now, last, am I right in thinking that you looked
18 for telephone numbers associated with the following
19 people: Kes Wingfield?
20 A. That is correct.
21 Q. Trevor Rees-Jones' pager?
22 A. That is correct.
23 Q. The Princess of Wales?
24 A. That is correct.
25 Q. A fairly large number of phone numbers?
141
1 A. Yes, indeed.
2 Q. Mr Al Fayed; that is to say Dodi Al Fayed?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. All the mobiles that had been associated or attributed
5 to Henri Paul?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. A number of telephones attributed to a man to called
8 Mr Gueheneux who was a security guard at Rue Arsene
9 Houssaye?
10 A. He had six numbers associated with him.
11 Q. And the number at Rue Arsene Houssaye?
12 A. That is correct.
13 Q. The main number of the Ritz Hotel?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And also the mobile number of Laurent Salmon about whom
16 we have heard a little in the last few days?
17 A. Yes, indeed.
18 Q. And in the documents that you obtained from the French
19 dossier, was there any sign of any of those numbers?
20 A. No, there was not.
21 MR BURNETT: Thank you. If you stay there, Mr Stokes, there
22 will be further questions.
23 MR MANSFIELD: No thank you.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Keen?
25 Questions from MR KEEN
142
1 MR KEEN: Just a short matter, Mr Stokes. We are advised
2 that the Metropolitan Police in carrying out their Paget
3 inquiries did have access to telephone data for
4 Claude Roulet, 30th August, 1997, do you recall being
5 instructed to analyse or consider any of that telephone
6 data?
7 A. No, I do not.
8 MR KEEN: You don't, very well, thank you.
9 Questions from MR CROXFORD
10 MR CROXFORD: Just a few things, Mr Stokes. Can I ask about
11 the last piece of evidence you gave in answer to
12 Mr Burnett's questions. You checked between midnight
13 and 00.30 in respect of that range of people and found
14 no calls; is that right?
15 A. That is correct.
16 Q. And that included Mr Wingfield who made no calls during
17 that period; is that correct?
18 A. That is correct.
19 Q. But as far as you can tell, his last call was made at
20 21.44 Paris time; is that right?
21 A. That is right.
22 Q. How did you find that out? Did you interrogate
23 the phone or did you see a bill?
24 A. There is a document referenced in my statement which is
25 a telephone bill.
143
1 Q. Thank you very much.
2 I would like to ask you next about the evidence you
3 gave last week by reference to this plan, [MAS9].
4 Mr Stokes, I think you know broadly what it is I am
5 going to ask you about. I would like to set the scene,
6 if I may, and remind the ladies and gentlemen of the
7 jury and by reference, if I may, to these two,
8 the bottom right-hand corner, pink and lime green.
9 Now, the boxes shown are computer generated,
10 I think, indicating the coverage of the particular cell;
11 is that correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And these two particular boxes show an overlap at
14 the point where they are contiguous, don't they?
15 A. I must point that out that this document, MAS9 was
16 produced from originally looking at some French
17 documents and placing them on top of another map.
18 Q. I am going to come to a detailed point in a moment and
19 I want to make it clear I am making no criticism
20 whatsoever when I move to something, but what you have
21 shown here are hard lines at the edges of the cell. In
22 practical terms, certainly for bears of small brain like
23 me, it may be better to have in mind that there are wavy
24 lines because the precise edge of any of these cells is
25 always very difficult to predict on the ground, isn't
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1 it?
2 A. Normally we would undertake measurements and as I have
3 said in my evidence before, they certainly are not
4 square and they would form around the topography and the
5 buildings in that area.
6 Q. But in the design and location of the cells, one of the
7 things that is the designer will do is to try and
8 provide for an overlap, in order to ensure completeness
9 of coverage?
10 A. Yes, completeness of coverage and also to ensure that
11 there is no interference from other cells some distance
12 away.
13 Q. Right, moving on to the next thing: the middle green of
14 the cells, 07563, I will have to ask you about that for
15 the moment.
16 I think it is right, isn't it, that as shown on this
17 plan, if it was going to be accurate -- and I am not
18 being critical, really, according to such information as
19 you got from the French, it ought to be shunted a little
20 way over to the right so that it overlaps with the small
21 pink box?
22 A. It is quite difficult because the cartography,
23 the mapping is different. If we look at [MAS4] which this
24 was taken from -- the mapping used to produce MAS9 was
25 something called Autoroute which is an all purpose
145
1 package and the roads do not form the same angles. So,
2 a best fit was done with the top left and right-hand
3 corners of the green box.
4 If you look at those top corners, you will see that
5 they do fit with MAS4.
6 Q. But otherwise, if you concentrate in MAS9 for
7 the moment, on the road that runs through their top
8 right-hand quadrant and a road the jury knows something
9 about, the Faubourg Saint Honore which crosses
10 the Rue Cambon, if you concentrate on Faubourg
11 Saint Honore, the intersection of the edge of the green
12 shown on MAS9 is before Faubourg Saint Honore reaches
13 Rue Cambon, isn't it?
14 A. Yes, slightly.
15 Q. Whereas if one looks at the original on MAS4,
16 the intersection with the Rue Cambon, I will just try to
17 get this correctly, we can see the word Madeleine about
18 a inch and a quarter down from the top right-hand corner
19 of the plan; do you see that?
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. And immediately below Madeleine, running down and
22 slightly right to left is Rue Cambon, isn't it?
23 A. Yes, it is.
24 Q. And the intersection with the area shown on this plan of
25 Faubourg Saint Honore is down at that first major
146
1 junction, isn't it, about three-quarters of an inch up
2 from the right-hand corner of the pink box?
3 A. Yes, as I have said, if you look at the top left and
4 right corners, they seem to align to the two maps, then
5 it is apparent to me that the roads are not indicative
6 of where the real roads are, so I think it is difficult
7 to say what the coverage would be in real terms
8 according to these maps. They are a crude indication,
9 as I think I have said before in my evidence, of
10 approximately where that coverage would be at this time.
11 Q. Drawing it together, Mr Stokes, can we agree that it is
12 perfectly probable that the coverage of cell 7563 may
13 well have extended over to the right-hand side towards
14 Rue Cambon?
15 A. Yes, I think it is logical to deduce from other evidence
16 that we have heard as well that it probably did cover
17 further across to the right.
18 Q. And in particular, that would be because there appears
19 to be observational evidence of people in the Rue Cambon
20 whose telephones have turned up, in particular
21 Mr Chassery?
22 A. That is correct.
23 Q. I will come to him in a moment.
24 Then the last thing I would ask you about in respect
25 of this is the blue cell over by the Alma Tunnel, just
147
1 to set the scene. I think in your evidence that you
2 gave last week you indicated that you would expect and
3 understand that there are overlapping cells associated
4 with this one, 27503 which would include those other
5 cells that we have seen the numbers of, 07503 first of
6 all?
7 A. Yes, at the top left, I would expect that to have been.
8 Q. And 17503. And when you say top left, do you mean to
9 the north --
10 A. Of the blue area.
11 Q. -- of the blue area, up towards the Avenue
12 Champs-Elysees, which we can see running across on your
13 plan?
14 A. Again, as I said before in my evidence, if you look at
15 the light green and the dark green areas, if you close
16 that over the top of the blue areas, the logic forms
17 around on the sectors.
18 Q. In there, the 7563 is a sort of generic and then
19 the opening number sets the sector within the overall?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Very well; I think the last thing I want to ask you
22 about is this: in respect of the records you have in
23 relation to Messrs Odekerken and Chassery, as you told
24 the jury last week, there is rather more detailed
25 information available about the cell sectors that their
148
1 calls were being routed through?
2 A. Yes, we have the call data showing the time of the call,
3 the date of the call and the cell and cell sector that
4 that call was connected to when it made and/or received
5 a call.
6 Q. Whilst one must be careful, because absolute precision
7 is not necessarily achievable here --
8 A. I would say it is not achievable.
9 Q. Very well, if one follows the cell sectors through which
10 their respective phone calls were routed over the period
11 of time for which we have records, we can see an
12 indication, can we not, of the movement on the ground of
13 these two men?
14 A. Yes, an indication.
15 Q. I would just then like to follow it through quickly.
16 If you go in your print-out with the colours purple
17 and yellow, MAS3, just pick it up at phone call
18 number 3, this time purple, Mr Chassery is in that cell
19 that we have seen and I asked you a few questions about
20 a few moments ago, 0563, his phone calls are being
21 routed through that one?
22 A. Yes, it is.
23 Q. There is other evidence to suggest that he was at or
24 about at the back of the Ritz at that time. So we can
25 start him off there?
149
1 A. Yes, it would be logical to say that.
2 Q. Mr Odekerken at that time, the counterparty to this
3 telephone conversation is not in a cell that we can
4 recognise from the data that you have?
5 A. No, not at all.
6 Q. And so it is probable that whilst there is other
7 evidence to show that he was close by the Ritz Hotel,
8 probably he was not in one of the cells for which
9 we have details on MAS9?
10 A. No, it would tend to indicate that he was in another
11 cell area, maybe close by.
12 Q. Very well. If we then follow through, obviously there
13 is another phone call in number 5 and a then further
14 phone call in number 6. Looking at Mr Odekerken's
15 position, Odekerken is in that other cell, 60148 in 3
16 and in 5 and in 6 and in 7; correct?
17 A. Yes, indeed.
18 Q. But by the time we get down to call number 9, at that
19 stage Mr Odekerken has moved from his 60148 cell and has
20 moved into 60016.
21 A. It would appear so, yes.
22 Q. At that position also, Mr Chassery appears to have moved
23 from his starting position in cell 7563 also to be in
24 the same cell as Mr Odekerken?
25 A. I think to extrapolate that they have moved without
150
1 knowing where the 60148 site is, any substantial
2 distance we cannot do, but can you say that it appears
3 they are in the same sector of the same cell at that
4 time.
5 Q. Very well. And if there is other evidence to suggest
6 that one or both of these men was seen at a particular
7 place otherwise than at the back of the hotel in
8 Rue Cambon, then that might indicate that this is
9 consistent with them having moved from there?
10 A. I do not think I could comment, not knowing where these
11 cells are.
12 Q. Very well. If you turn the page, taking this very
13 swiftly, we can now follow Mr Odekerken to some extent.
14 A. Yes, we can.
15 Q. Because he remains in the next two calls numbers 13 and
16 15 -- sorry, number 13 he is in the same sector again,
17 isn't he?
18 A. Yes, he is.
19 Q. But by the time we get to number 15, he appears to have
20 moved sector?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And by the time we get to number 17, he has moved sector
23 again?
24 A. Yes, he has.
25 Q. And again, that would be consistent with a man on the
151
1 move?
2 A. No, as I said before, not knowing where the 60016 site
3 is, you could not infer any movement.
4 Q. Very well. But when we get to number 20, you believe
5 that 07503 is to the north of that Alma Tunnel blue
6 cell?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And one could infer then that he has indeed moved from
9 somewhere over near the Ritz to somewhere near
10 the Alma Tunnel?
11 A. It is more likely that someone has moved than not.
12 Q. And at that stage, when the telephone call goes out at
13 24 minutes past midnight, 24 minutes and 5 seconds,
14 number 20 --
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. I should pause for a moment. In respect of timing,
17 these times shown here you would expect are pretty
18 accurate towards the objective standard of what the time
19 was in Paris on that night; is that correct?
20 A. Yes. My belief, these times are taken from the court
21 data records, not the French documentation, so I would
22 think within a few seconds, they are probably the most
23 accurate.
24 Q. I do not know what the French equivalent is to Greenwich
25 Mean Time but it is pretty close within a few seconds to
152
1 whatever that equivalent would be.
2 A. It is Greenwich Mean Time plus the hour.
3 Q. Just to be careful about this, as I think Mr Carpenter
4 has already made plain, one has to be circumspect when
5 looking at the times on the Ritz Hotel CCTV cameras
6 because those have been adjusted to show consistency
7 between cameras, as I think you know, but one does not
8 know precisely how well the base time clock compared to
9 Greenwich Mean Time plus one hour?
10 A. I have no personal understanding of this case but CCTV
11 clocks, like the clock on your video recorder or
12 anything else, are most likely set manually so they will
13 be relative to the time that someone has set upon them.
14 Q. Very well.
15 We have then Mr Odekerken at the time of call 20, in
16 07503, somewhere near the Alma Tunnel but not
17 necessarily in that section that is shown in blue.
18 Mr Chassery by this stage is no longer in the cell that
19 he started off at behind the Ritz Hotel; correct?
20 A. Well, it shows a different cell ID. Again, without
21 knowing whether 17527 cell ID is, I could not possibly
22 comment where he is.
23 Q. But he is unlikely to be in the same cell as
24 Mr Odekerken at that stage.
25 A. It would tend to indicate that, yes.
153
1 Q. And if we just follow Mr Chassery for a moment and turn
2 the page on to telephone call number 26, this call is
3 made between the two men. Odekerken remains in the same
4 cell somewhere to the north of the blue one, but
5 Mr Chassery's phone calls are going through a different
6 cell?
7 A. Yes, they are.
8 Q. And that would be consistent with Chassery having moved?
9 A. Again, I could not comment.
10 Q. Very well.
11 But when one gets to call number 30 at the foot of
12 that page, at half past midnight with 48 seconds, by
13 now, Chassery is in a location where his phone call is
14 being routed through the same cell sector as
15 Mr Odekerken?
16 A. Yes, it is.
17 Q. And that remains the same if one looks over the page at
18 32 and 34; correct?
19 A. Yes, it does.
20 Q. And also, for 36 and 40, correct? For Mr Chassery?
21 A. For Mr Chassery, yes.
22 Q. But by now, by the time we get to number 40, again,
23 Mr Odekerken is now in a different sector, 07549,
24 wherever that may be?
25 A. Yes, we don't know where that is.
154
1 Q. But again would be consistent with Mr Odekerken having
2 moved on?
3 A. Couldn't say.
4 Q. Very well. We can see if we then took trouble to go
5 through the remaining calls between the two gentlemen
6 that the sectors through which their calls are being
7 routed changes thereafter, possibly I am going to
8 suggest because they were moving between locations?
9 A. Yes. As I say, unless we know where the cell is,
10 we cannot even have an idea.
11 Q. Very well. The last point is to go back. If we go back
12 to call number 20, this is the last thing I want to ask
13 you, Mr Stokes. This is 24 minutes past midnight.
14 It is a time of some significance. You have said that
15 Mr Odekerken's cell is probably to the north of the blue
16 one, 27503?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And where Odekerken is, 17527, on the information that
19 you have, you have no basis to disagree with Mr Chassery
20 having described himself at about that time somewhere in
21 the vicinity of the Champs-Elysees area; correct?
22 A. I could not possibly comment.
23 MR CROXFORD: Very well. Sir, I am grateful.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Could you help us as to what
25 the underlying point is that you are seeking to extract
155
1 from the cross-examination here so that when we all come
2 back to this in the future, if we do, we can remind
3 ourselves what you were getting at.
4 MR CROXFORD: Yes, of course.
5 It is pretty embarrassing, it is not clear with me
6 but must have been clear with Tom de la Mare earlier on.
7 It goes to this: when Mr Carpenter comes back into the
8 witness box and gives some evidence, if it is
9 Mr Carpenter, about Mr Chassery then reliant upon this
10 information, one has assistance in locating Mr Chassery
11 and corroborating Mr Chassery's account of events,
12 namely that whilst he went to the Place de la Concorde,
13 he thereafter went up the Champs-Elysees and was in
14 the vicinity of the Champs-Elysees at the time of
15 the crash, in much the same way that Mr Veres and others
16 were located, as I understand it, by Mr Carpenter as
17 being in the vicinity of the Ritz Hotel at the time of
18 the crash and therefore, as you are now ahead of me and
19 see the point, I am sure, sir, none of those gentlemen
20 was involved in whatever the events were in
21 the Alma Tunnel at the time of the crash.
22 With respect, I hope that is a clear and sensible
23 point.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: There we are, members of the
25 jury. We are all much wiser. Or perhaps you knew all
156
1 along.
2 MR CROXFORD: I am not going to be drawn on that, sir.
3 I shall go away covered with sackcloth and ashes.
4 I have no doubt that Mr de la Mare will read the
5 transcript and make sure that I suffer.
6 Questions from MR HORWELL
7 MR HORWELL: You have been asked many questions about what
8 this diagram may help the jury with in terms of
9 the positions of certain individuals.
10 A. Yes, indeed.
11 Q. And you have said on a number of occasions that absolute
12 precision is not achievable?
13 A. No. It is not.
14 Q. And if we can summarise the reasons for that, this
15 diagram you have described as a crude engineering tool?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Its purpose, as far as you are aware, is to provide
18 a guide as to the area of each sector of each cell site?
19 A. Yes. It is -- two preliminary reasons for why they
20 would do this initially, before they even actually put
21 the sites in the ground, for want of a better term, or
22 on the buildings is to understand how many sites they
23 will need approximately and which areas they are going
24 to cover approximately and make sure that they have
25 coverage. The networks themselves do not care which
157
1 sector of which site covers any particular point. All
2 they do care about is that when you activate or make
3 a call, you will be able to connect to the network.
4 Q. If you were asked to do this work today, you would have
5 a survey taken of the scene?
6 A. Yes, we would either undertake a survey or get a survey
7 undertaken which involves driving the streets in
8 the area and actually measuring the coverage of any
9 particular sector that the caller is connected through.
10 Q. I know you have said this a number of times, but
11 the footprint, as it is sometimes called, of a sector,
12 have you never seen in a regular oblong shape?
13 A. No, it will not be regular an oblong and also it will
14 not be blanket coverage depending upon the topography.
15 Q. What you can be certain of, Mr Stokes, is this right, is
16 that this diagram has never been prepared for forensic
17 use?
18 A. No.
19 Q. What you would also need to answer the questions
20 accurately is the data for all the other cell sites?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Which are not included on this plan and it is
23 the absence of that data that prevents you from helping
24 this jury as to where any particular mobile telephone
25 might have been at any particular time?
158
1 A. Yes, we have gone completely through all the French
2 documentation around telecommunications calls, mobile
3 phone calls and we could not find anything to indicate
4 where those cell sites may have been in 1997 and there
5 is no way that you can go back there today because there
6 will be no similarity between 1997 and today.
7 Q. You have been asked as to whether or not the police have
8 ever had billing records or mobile telephone data for
9 Roulet. Have you ever seen any?
10 A. I do not even know who the name is and I am not aware of
11 any.
12 Q. You have been asked, however, about the billing details
13 for the mobile telephone for Dodi Al Fayed?
14 A. Yes, I have.
15 Q. Can you confirm that the billing details for
16 Dodi Al Fayed's mobile telephone shows that on
17 the 30th August, there were five calls made from it?
18 A. That is correct, yes.
19 Q. And the times from the data start -- the first call on
20 the 30th was at 21.25 and the last was at 21.50?
21 A. That is correct, yes.
22 Q. And can you confirm from the information that you have
23 been given that not one of those calls was either to his
24 father or to the Oxted residence?
25 A. I do not know the number of the Oxted residence or his
159
1 father and I have not been asked to look at that.
2 Q. The only call, so that I can make this clear now, to any
3 of the Fayed connections is the last call, at 21.50,
4 which was to Park Lane. But you don't even have that
5 data, Mr Stokes?
6 A. No, I do not.
7 MR HORWELL: Well, we will provide that. Thank you.
8 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: What about Princess Diana's
9 mobiles? Do you have details of those calls?
10 A. There are none on here in the times that we were looking
11 at.
12 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: And what was the time that you
13 were looking at?
14 A. That is the midnight to 1 o'clock in the morning on
15 31st August 1997.
16 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Before that, can you help?
17 A. No, I cannot.
18 MR HORWELL: We will provide that.
19 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you.
20 MR BURNETT: I have no further questions, sir.
21 MR KEEN: I wonder if I might raise a point. I am not sure
22 if my learned friend Mr Horwell was intending to imply
23 that the Metropolitan Police did not have the telephone
24 data for Claude Roulet on 30th August 1997. I am sure
25 he was not. But as a matter of clarification, the
160
1 Metropolitan Police note at chapter 4 page 201 of the
2 Paget report, Paget note:
3 "These calls were confirmed by telephone data from
4 Claude Roulet's telephone."
5 So, clearly the Metropolitan Police do have that
6 data.
7 MR HORWELL: We will check that too.
8 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you.
9 Thank you very much, Mr Stokes. That is, unless you
10 have any re-examination?
11 MR BURNETT: Not on that point, or any other, sir.
12 I am grateful to Mr Stokes. I am also grateful to
13 him for having educated me a little bit out of court on
14 the mysteries of mobile telephone coverage.
15 Sir, the next witness is Mr Foley.
16 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes.
17 MR THOMAS FOLEY (recalled)
18 Questions from MR BURNETT
19 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: You are still on oath, Mr Foley.
20 A. I understand, sir, thank you.
21 MR BURNETT: Did you make a statement, Mr Foley, dated
22 11th March of this year?
23 A. I did.
24 Q. And do you produce the following documents: first,
25 a record of the interview at 16.00 hours on
161
1 2nd October 1997 of Mr Jean-Pierre Allidiere which was
2 in the French investigation document?
3 A. I do yes.
4 Q. Do you also produce a record of the interview at 10.15
5 on 17th September 1997 of Mr Jean-Luc Paul Morere which
6 was also included in the French investigation dossier?
7 A. I do.
8 Q. Third, do you produce a record of the interview at
9 16.05 hours on 4th September 1997 Myriam Lemaire,
10 similarly included in the French investigation dossier?
11 A. I do.
12 Q. Fourth, do you produce a record of the interview at
13 1645 hours on 8th September 1997 of Sandra Cudelou
14 which, once again, was included in the French
15 investigation dossier?
16 A. Once again, I do.
17 Q. Insofar as each of those interviews was conducted in
18 French, do you produce an English translation?
19 A. I do.
20 Q. Next, do you produce a statement of Mrs Della Davies,
21 the wife of Chief Superintendent David Seaborn Davies,
22 dated 13th February 2008?
23 A. I do.
24 Q. Next, do you produce the answers to a number of
25 questions posed to Assistant Chief Constable Nicholas
162
1 James Gargan which were asked of him on 13th December
2 2007?
3 A. I do.
4 Q. And has he provided answers to those questions in
5 a statement dated 21st February of this year 2008?
6 A. He has.
7 Q. I think I may have said 08 for December, when I should
8 have said 07.
9 A. I can confirm 08.
10 Q. 08 for the statement, 07 for the questions?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Next, do you produce a letter dated 5th March 2008
13 addressed to Mr Smith from Lord Fellowes which deals
14 with an issue that arose in the course of evidence after
15 he had completed his?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And last, do you produce a letter from Martin Bashir to
18 the Coroner dated 22nd February 2008 which similarly
19 deals with an issue that has been raised with him?
20 A. Yes.
21 MR BURNETT: Sir, what I propose to do is read a number of
22 those now, to the extent that everybody can bear to hear
23 the sound of my voice and then we might swap over.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: The jury may need to be reminded
25 to what they relate, in particular.
163
1 MR BURNETT: That we can do as we go along.
2 Statement of ASSISTANT CHIEF CONSTABLE NICHOLAS GARGAN
3 (read)
4 The first that I will read is that of Assistant
5 Chief Constable Nicholas Gargan. It is a statement with
6 the usual form at the beginning about its content being
7 true and so forth and this is what he said:
8 "I am Assistant Chief Constable Nicholas James
9 Gargan of Thames Valley Police. On 13th December 2007,
10 I gave evidence to the Coroner's inquests into
11 the deaths of Diana, Princess of Wales and
12 Mr Dodi Al Fayed. At the conclusion of my evidence,
13 I undertook to review the files that I had prepared
14 whilst working as a drugs liaison officer at the British
15 Embassy Paris at the time of the deaths, with a view to
16 answering five questions. I will deal with each
17 question in turn.
18 "Question One: Is there a file note detailing my
19 conversation with Jeffrey Rees on 1st September 1997 and
20 did he say anything about the death being suspicious?
21 "I cannot find a specific file note detailing my
22 conversation with Jeffrey Rees on 1st September 1997,
23 but he did write to me as a result confirming his
24 appointment as investigating officer and requesting
25 early liaison with his French counterparts. I have no
164
1 recollection of Rees ever expressing a view that
2 the deaths were suspicious.
3 "Question Two: Had the name James Andanson come
4 from me and been passed to the French?
5 "I have no record of passing the name James Andanson
6 to the French investigators. I do have a record, dated
7 20th January 1998, of a telephone conversation with
8 Martine Monteil on 19th January 1998. In that
9 conversation, the relevant part of my note records that
10 'She was grateful to hear about the anonymous witness
11 who had heard about a white Fiat Uno belonging to
12 a Sygma employee that had been hidden at the employee's
13 second home in the Loiret or Indre departments. Monteil
14 has never abandoned the theory that the vehicle belonged
15 to a paparazzo. She would be grateful for any more
16 details if we could get them'. I do not know how
17 the name was passed to the French. I have no record of
18 a note from me to the French about Andanson.
19 "Question Three: Had I received any information
20 about what was described as the Mishcon note?
21 "I have no record of having been informed of the
22 Mishcon note during my involvement with Operation Paris.
23 Neither do I remember hearing of any information about
24 the Princess of Wales expressing fears for her safety,
25 other than stories reported in the press. I think that
165
1 the first I heard of these fears and of the existence of
2 a note was from Operation Paget team several years
3 later, possibly between 2004 and 2005.
4 "Question Four: As far as Jason Fraser is concerned,
5 could I search the file for information relating to him?
6 "I have several notes relating to Jason Fraser. He
7 is first mentioned in a file note from Jeffrey Rees
8 copied to me dated 1st October 1997 in which Rees
9 describes how it was probably Fraser who telephoned
10 Darryn Lyons on 30th August 1997. It was as a result of
11 this call, in Mr Rees' opinion, that Lyons travelled to
12 Paris on that day. On 24th October 1997, I visited
13 the Brigade Criminelle and had a meeting with Martine
14 Monteil and Vianney Dyevre and I made a note of the
15 meeting the same day.
16 "The relevant section of my notes reads: 'in respect
17 of Jason Fraser they have now identified where he works
18 and he will be spoken to soon. They wondered if any
19 checks could usefully be carried out in
20 the United Kingdom to see if he is known'.
21 "On the same day I received information from
22 Detective Inspector Sharp about Fraser which was dated
23 24th October. I passed this information to the French
24 on 28th October. My earlier statement, dated 14th July
25 2006, describes collecting an envelope from
166
1 Special Branch officers and discussing Fraser with them,
2 I believe that this would have been to receive good
3 quality prints of the photographs contained in Sharp's
4 correspondence of 24th October.
5 "In the file, I found three further references to
6 Fraser. The first is also dated 24th October and is
7 a file note from Jeffrey Rees in which, amongst other
8 things, he notes that the French had asked the research
9 to be done into Fraser. There is a file note signed by
10 Rees recording a meeting on 10th November at the British
11 Embassy in Paris at which I was also present. Among
12 other things, he writes of the French investigators
13 'they are not looking for Fraser at present but do not
14 anticipate that he will be difficult to find. Quite
15 simply, it is a question of focusing on one area of the
16 investigation at a time. If the photographs were still
17 being sent out, that would of course be a very different
18 situation'.
19 "Finally, there is a further note from Rees dated
20 12th December 1997. Here he records a meeting with
21 Martine Monteil and her deputy in Paris. I was also
22 present. He writes, 'They will not be seeking to
23 interview Jason Fraser until they have completed their
24 inquiries in relation to the Fiat Uno'. I can find no
25 note in my files of Fraser's whereabouts on the weekend
167
1 of 30th and 31st August 1997, but have seen a record of
2 interview in which he told the French police that he was
3 in Cannes at the time, an account that the French found
4 to be supported by hotel bills and other documentary
5 evidence. French UK952/D6057-6063.
6 "Question Five: Specifically, do I have a file note
7 after meeting with Mr Mules when Mr Andanson was
8 mentioned?
9 "I cannot find a note which could relate to this
10 meeting. Neither do I remember this meeting taking
11 place, but it may have done as I was a regular visitor
12 to the Brigade Criminelle, although most of my
13 interactions were with Martine Monteil and Vianney
14 Dyevre. I have attempted to answer these questions as
15 comprehensively as possible, but would be prepared to
16 provide any further clarification if asked to do so."
17 Now, Mr Foley, is that Mr Gargan's statement
18 containing his answers?
19 A. It is.
20 Q. I was just going to turn to Lord Fellowes.
21 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: I wondered if it is necessary to
22 ask if anybody wants to ask questions in the meantimes?
23 MR MANSFIELD: No thank you, sir.
24 MR CROXFORD: No thank you.
25 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Lord Fellowes?
168
1 Letter to the Inquests from LORD FELLOWES (read)
2 MR BURNETT: Lord Fellowes. I think this is at tab 24 of
3 the bundle that you have prepared for yourself,
4 Mr Foley.
5 Is this a letter from Lord Fellowes which deals with
6 an inquiry which arose from the evidence of
7 Sir John Adye?
8 A. It does.
9 Q. And did it in particular arise from evidence begin by
10 Sir John Adye about a meeting at which Lord Fellowes was
11 recorded as having indicated that there was some
12 evidence of interference with the landline at
13 the premises at which Prince Charles was said to be
14 staying when his call to Mrs Parker Bowles was
15 intercepted?
16 A. That is correct.
17 Q. And that is the context of the question and this letter?
18 A. Indeed.
19 Q. And is this a letter from Lord Fellowes to Martin Smith
20 dated 5th March?
21 A. It is.
22 Q. He said this:
23 "Dear Martin, I write with reference to
24 the Coroner's request for assistance concerning evidence
25 given by Sir John Adye on 28th February 2008. During
169
1 the course of that evidence, he made reference to a note
2 which is at [and he gives the inquiry reference]. The
3 Coroner has asked whether or not I can recall what
4 evidence of tampering was found and as to whether or not
5 I have any documents touching upon this issue. Until
6 I saw this note, I had no recollection of this
7 particular matter whatsoever, nor indeed of the meeting
8 to which reference is made. However, the note has
9 reminded me that somebody did carry out a physical check
10 at the property from which one of the phone calls was
11 made. I cannot recall who this was or indeed who asked
12 them to make the check. The best therefore that I can
13 say is what is detailed in the note.
14 "It is also my vague recollection that someone,
15 probably the police, arranged for a physical check to be
16 carried out of the telephone lines at Sandringham and to
17 the best of my recollection, no evidence of tampering
18 was found.
19 "If I can of any further assistance, please let me
20 know."
21 And it is signed "Yours sincerely, Robert Fellowes"
22 and that is his letter.
23 A. It is.
24 Questions from MR MANSFIELD
25 MR MANSFIELD: It is not so much a question as
170
1 a qualification. I do not know if you are aware,
2 Mr Foley, but Mr Hodges has done a trawl, are you aware
3 of that?
4 A. I am.
5 Q. It is only in relation to the last part of the letter
6 that deals with Sandringham. The result of the trawl is
7 that there is no documentation -- are you going to look
8 it up? I do not think it is in that statement?
9 A. Is it a recent Hodges one?
10 Q. Yes. Sorry, I do not think it is in the statement you
11 have there, so it may come in a separate document.
12 The trawl shows there is no documentation to support any
13 investigation or search at Sandringham; do you happen to
14 know that?
15 A. I believe I have seen a note from Mr Hodges --
16 Q. To that effect?
17 A. Yes, I have seen that document.
18 MR KEEN: No questions sir.
19 MR CROXFORD: Regrettably, no.
20 Questions from MR HORWELL
21 MR HORWELL: Mr Foley, this is grossly unfair.
22 There is no evidence to suggest an investigation at
23 Sandringham as a result of this precise investigation.
24 We have heard other evidence --
25 A. Yes.
171
1 Q. But it is very unfair to put that on you. Perhaps, sir,
2 it would be better from another witness. But I thought
3 it should be made clear.
4 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes, thank you.
5 MR BURNETT: Can I turn next then to the letter from Martin
6 Bashir?
7 A. Yes.
8 Letter to the Inquests from MR MARTIN BASHIR (read)
9 MR BURNETT: As we saw a few minutes ago, this is a letter
10 dated 22nd February 2008 to Lord Justice Scott Baker?
11 A. It is.
12 Q. And the topic of the letter is "Correspondence Between
13 Princess Diana and Prince Philip"?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And the context, Mr Foley, I think you know is this: in
16 her evidence, on Day 50, and for anyone's note, it is
17 page 67, Simone Simmons suggested that Diana had said to
18 her -- that is to say to Simone Simmons -- that she,
19 Diana, had given copies of the Duke's letters to
20 Martin Bashir, and that she had made efforts to get them
21 back, which may or may not have been successful.
22 I expect you are aware of that?
23 A. I may not have been in court that day, but I am aware of
24 that.
25 Q. Is the letter this:
172
1 "Dear Lord Justice, I apologise for the delay in my
2 response to a request from Ms Caroline McMann to provide
3 information to the inquests into the deaths of
4 the Princess of Wales and Mr Dodi Al Fayed. As you can
5 imagine, the current news cycle in the United States is
6 extremely busy with presidential primaries ongoing and
7 I am travelling for much of the time."
8 It is right, is it not, Mr Foley that this letter
9 comes on paper from ABC News, a well-known news
10 organisation in the United States?
11 A. Well-known and respected.
12 Q. And he went on:
13 "You say in your correspondence: 'what is required
14 in the first instance from you is a statement or email
15 dealing with your involvement, if any, with
16 Prince Philip's letters'. I do recall reading some
17 correspondence between the late Princess of Wales and
18 His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh. However,
19 it is a considerable time ago and I have very little
20 recollection, if any, of content. If there had been any
21 strong language, it is likely that I would have made
22 reference to such material in my interview with the late
23 Princess. But as you may know, there is no reference to
24 any such correspondence during the interview.
25 "It has been repeatedly and erroneously stated that
173
1 I have been in possession of such correspondence.
2 I have not and do not possess any letters between
3 current/former members of the Royal Family. I have
4 absolutely no idea where they may be and was never privy
5 to any information regarding their whereabouts. I hope
6 this satisfies your request.
7 "For what it is worth, it is my sincere hope that
8 both the late Princess and Mr Al Fayed will be allowed
9 to rest in peace and I have nothing further to add to
10 the above statement."
11 Can I turn next to the statement of Jean-Pierre
12 Allidiere.
13 Statement of MR JEAN-PIERRE ALLIDIERE (read)
14 MR BURNETT: Mr Foley, this is a statement, is it not, taken
15 at 1600 hours on 2nd October 1997 by Eric Crosnier, the
16 Police Captain and it is in a form with which the jury
17 have become very familiar over the last five and more
18 months.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And I will skip over the introductory section where
21 Mr Allidiere gives his name and details, noting that he
22 was at that time senior head waiter at the Ritz. And he
23 said this:
24 "I have been employed at the Ritz since 1976 and
25 more specifically, assigned as senior head waiter at
174
1 the Bar Vendome for about five years. I heard the news
2 of the death of Princess Diana and Mr Dodi Al Fayed and
3 the identity of the chauffeur, Mr Paul, through
4 the press in the morning of 31st August and of
5 the condition of Mr Rees-Jones in the evening of the
6 same day, at my place of work. I have recently been on
7 holiday and do not recommence my duties until tomorrow.
8 However, I worked on Saturday 30th August 1997 between
9 12.45 hours and 22.40 hours and I only took short
10 breaks. So, on that Saturday 30th, I carried out my
11 normal duties at the Bar Vendome. These consisted of
12 greeting the clients, showing them to their tables,
13 getting them served or serving them, ensuring good
14 service and possibly taking the money for the drinks.
15 "The following persons worked with me depending on
16 their shifts: Messrs Alain Willaumez, senior barman;
17 Vincent L'Hotelier, senior barman; Philippe Doucin, chef
18 de rang-barman; and Sebastien Trote, chef de rang.
19 "At about 17.00 hours, a security officer from
20 the hotel, possibly Mr Francois Tendil came into the bar
21 and introduced me to Dodi Al Fayed's two bodyguards.
22 I sat them down at table number 5, I think, and they
23 each drank a tea. They stayed for about half an hour.
24 I did not pay attention to their departure. Because of
25 this presence I asked Francois and he confirmed that
175
1 Dodi Al Fayed was in the hotel, accompanied by
2 Princess Diana. I saw these guards again at about
3 22.00 hours accompanied by a security officer,
4 Mr Francois Tendil or a person with the first name of
5 Vincent. I think I placed them at table number 1, at
6 that point he whispered in my ear that he thought
7 the customers at table number 15 could be paparazzi.
8 "I glanced over to this table and I saw men of
9 European appearance aged about 40, of normal height and
10 build. And I remember that one of them was badly
11 shaven, was wearing a light coloured sleeveless jacket
12 with lots of pockets. They were sitting down and there
13 were two plastic bags bearing advertising beneath their
14 chairs, one dark and the other light, with something in
15 them which was not very large and whose shape I could
16 not make out.
17 "I cannot say whether it was cameras, these men were
18 drinking Macallan whisky. I took the order and served
19 the bodyguards with toast and lobster and Schweppes.
20 I did not know these men, who were in a completely
21 normal state, composed and pleasant.
22 "You are showing me a photograph of a man whom you
23 are telling me is called Trevor Rees-Jones and this is
24 one of the two bodyguards. I returned to my duties as
25 Mr Tendil or Vincent had left the bar. Then I saw
176
1 Mr Henri Paul go past and I went to see Vincent to ask
2 him if he had told him about the two men who could have
3 been paparazzi.
4 "He told me that he was going to do so. Then I saw
5 Mr Paul come back, pretending to be a guest and asking
6 me whether it was possible to get to the terrace through
7 the door and passing in front of table 15 in order to
8 observe its occupants. Then he beckoned to me to come
9 closer and I joined him outside. He told me that
10 Vincent had already pointed out these two people to him
11 and that their bags might contain small cameras. He
12 told me that he found them well behaved and that he
13 would see what happened.
14 "In reply to a question, this conversation lasted
15 less than one minute and I found Mr Paul in a completely
16 normal state, just as I was used to seeing him. He
17 expressed himself very well, clearly, his words were
18 coherent and his expression normal. He was quite close
19 to me and I did not notice any smell of alcohol coming
20 from him.
21 "He went up to Vincent and asked him where
22 the bodyguards were. He sat down at their table.
23 I thought M Paul had just arrived at the Ritz. He asked
24 me if the area where they were sitting was no smoking.
25 I replied that as there was nobody around them, this
177
1 would be all right and I handed him an ashtray. He
2 smoked a small cigarillo. He did not ask me for
3 anything else. I did not serve him with anything to
4 drink or eat and I learned at work the next day, Sunday,
5 through Alain Willaumez, that M Paul had drunk two
6 Ricards.
7 "In fact, I did not see anything else after M Paul
8 had lit his cigar whilst he was at table number 1 in
9 the company of two bodyguards. It was the last memory
10 that I have of him alive.
11 "However, at one point and shortly before Mr Paul's
12 arrival, I think, Vincent beckoned me and told me to
13 tell the bodyguards in English that the Princess and
14 Dodi Al Fayed were about to leave the Espadon restaurant
15 in the hotel in order to have their meal served in
16 apartment 102.
17 "I had barely translated this to the people
18 concerned when I saw Lady Di and Mr Al Fayed pass
19 furtively as they were going up the first few steps.
20 I only got a glimpse of them and I could not tell you
21 how they were. Notified of this movement by Vincent,
22 one of the two bodyguards, Mr Rees-Jones I think,
23 hurried into the corridor, went up a few steps to meet
24 the Princess. I suppose he was asking her for
25 instructions and I only glimpsed the scene, Dodi being a
178
1 few steps higher. At that point, I reflected that the
2 people at table number 15 were not moving, but it should
3 be said that they could not see the couple from where
4 they were sitting.
5 "To return to the situation where I had just seen
6 M Paul smoking, I continued my shift for a few minutes
7 and I left my place of work at around 22.40. I left via
8 Rue Cambon and I saw that there were three or four
9 people on the pavement opposite whom I took to be
10 photographers.
11 "I did not particularly look towards Place Vendome
12 during my work and I just noticed that there were a lot
13 of people during the evening.
14 "You are showing me a print-out of till receipts
15 from the Vendome bar. The one for table 1 for 1,260
16 francs seems to correspond to the bill that I opened for
17 the two bodyguards. On the other hand, the bill,
18 table 15, comprising four Macallans with Perriers for
19 a sum of 480 francs by Carte Bleue would appear to
20 correspond to the drinks served to the two people
21 indicated by Vincent as possibly being paparazzi."
22 He then goes on to describe Vincent. He is then
23 shown two photograph albums with a total of 34
24 photographs and he does not recognise any of them.
25 Then he goes on:
179
1 "I had known Mr Paul since his arrival several years
2 ago. He was a responsible man who worked seriously.
3 Our relationship was courteous. He never came to
4 the bar alone and the few times I saw him there he was
5 in the company of member of the hotel management. I do
6 not remember what he drank. I remember a whisky on one
7 occasion. It was always reasonable. At staff parties,
8 I always leave very shortly after the managing
9 director's speech and I have never witnessed anything
10 out of the ordinary.
11 "Mr Dodi Al Fayed was very discreet at the bar,
12 sometimes drinking a vodka or a Coca Cola and he liked
13 to smoke a cigar. He was reserved and because of his
14 position he got what he asked for, always very
15 correctly, which made him a pleasant person to serve.
16 I cannot say anything about his relationship with
17 Mr Paul.
18 "Apart from 30th August 1997, when I caught
19 a glimpse of her, I only caught the eye of
20 Princess Diana once last July, that is all. I think
21 that I only ever saw Mr Rees-Jones on Saturday 30th
22 August. I have nothing else to tell you."
23 So, that is Mr Allidiere's statement?
24 A. It is.
25 Q. And I am sure you remember, Mr Foley, that the two
180
1 people who were described in his statement, they were
2 followed up and we have heard evidence that they were
3 not paparazzi and that they can safely be excluded from
4 our consideration.
5 A. I am aware of that, yes.
6 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Mansfield?
7 MR MANSFIELD: No thank you, sir.
8 MR WEEKES: No thank you, sir.
9 MR CROXFORD: No thank you, sir.
10 MR HORWELL: No thank you, sir.
11 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you very much. I think
12 that is probably as far as we want to go this afternoon.
13 We would have to have a break now anyway and I think
14 we have covered quite a lot of territory today.
15 MR BURNETT: Yes.
16 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Tomorrow morning, what is
17 the position about the videolink?
18 MR BURNETT: No link, I am being told.
19 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: But is there one in
20 the afternoon, for Mr Gigou, possibly?
21 MR BURNETT: Could Mr Hough deal with it because I think he
22 has more information than I have?
23 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes.
24 MR HOUGH: No videolink for the morning, sir. For
25 the afternoon, Mr Gigou is not required. We are very
181
1 grateful to him for having made himself available but
2 we have been able to deal with the evidence that was
3 going to be dealt with through him by other means, so he
4 need not be troubled. That has already been
5 communicated to him during the course of this afternoon
6 by your secretariat. The videolink will be required in
7 the afternoon for Josiane Le Tellier who will be a very
8 brief witness.
9 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: So we can say 10 o'clock start,
10 members of the jury.
11 MR BURNETT: And I am afraid again, tomorrow, there will be
12 a fair amount of reading. We will try to break it up so
13 it is not too tedious for everybody.
14 (4.14 pm)
15 (The hearing was adjourned until
16 10.00 am on Thursday, 13th March 2008)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
182
1 INDEX
2
3 INSPECTOR PAUL CARPENTER (continued) ............. 2
4
5 Evidence relating to MR CHRISTIAN ................ 2
6 MARTINEZ and MR ALAIN GUIZARD
7 (continued)
8
9 Questions from MR DE LA MARE .............. 2
10
11 Further questions from MR HOUGH ........... 21
12
13 Evidence relating to MR SERGE ARNAL .............. 22
14
15 Questions from MR HILLIARD ................ 22
16
17 Questions from MR DE LA MARE .............. 46
18
19 Evidence relating to MR JACQUES .................. 57
20 LANGEVIN
21
22 Questions from MR HILLIARD ................ 57
23
24 Questions from MR KEEN .................... 71
25
183
1 Questions from MR DE LA MARE .............. 72
2
3 Evidence relating to MR CLIFFORD ................. 76
4 GOOROOVADOO
5
6 Questions from MR HOUGH ................... 76
7
8 Questions from MR KEEN .................... 97
9
10 Questions from MR HORWELL ................. 106
11
12 Further questions from MR HOUGH ........... 108
13
14 Evidence relating to MR MOHAMMED ................. 109
15 MEDJAHDI
16
17 Questions from MR HOUGH ................... 109
18
19 Questions from MR DE LA MARE .............. 116
20
21 Questions from MR HORWELL ................. 120
22
23 Evidence relating to MR CHRISTOPHE ............... 123
24 LASCAUX
25
184
1 Questions from MR HOUGH ................... 123
2
3 MR MARK STOKES (recalled) ........................ 129
4
5 Questions from MR BURNETT (continued) ..... 129
6
7 Questions from MR KEEN .................... 142
8
9 Questions from MR CROXFORD ................ 143
10
11 Questions from MR HORWELL ................. 157
12
13 MR THOMAS FOLEY (recalled) ....................... 161
14
15 Questions from MR BURNETT ................. 161
16
17 Statement of ASSISTANT CHIEF ..................... 164
18 CONSTABLE NICHOLAS GARGAN
19 (read)
20
21 Letter to the Inquests from LORD ................. 169
22 FELLOWES (read)
23
24 Questions from MR MANSFIELD ............... 170
25
185
1 Questions from MR HORWELL ................. 171
2
3 Letter to the Inquests from MR ................... 172
4 MARTIN BASHIR (read)
5
6 Statement of MR JEAN-PIERRE ...................... 174
7 ALLIDIERE (read)
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