Hearing transcripts

11 March 2008 - Morning session

1 Tuesday, 11th March 2008
2 (9.30 am)
3 (Jury present)
4 MR HILLIARD: Mr Carpenter, you have taken the oath before
5 and you are still bound by that.
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 INSPECTOR PAUL CARPENTER (recalled)
8 Questions from MR HILLIARD
9 MR HILLIARD: As you know, we are going to deal with more
10 material from the paparazzi through you in their
11 absence, as you understand.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Is it right: the material we are going to be looking at
14 from them includes material from the French dossier that
15 has been translated, when they were interviewed by
16 French police officers?
17 A. That is correct, yes.
18 Q. I think in addition in one case, there is a statement
19 that was taken by officers from Operation Paget?
20 A. Yes, relating to Pierre Suu.
21 Q. And there is a transcript of at least part of
22 a Channel 4 television programme in which one of them
23 was interviewed; is that right?
24 A. Yes, that is correct.
25 Q. Before we embark on that process, yesterday another

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1 timeline summary that you have prepared was distributed.
2 Do you have a copy of that there? It is called timeline
3 summary, paparazzi on Ritz CCTV from 21.45. Do you have
4 that?
5 A. Yes, I have.
6 Q. I want to have a quick look at that before we embark on
7 the exercise.
8 You followed the same format as before, is this
9 right. You looked at the CCTV film, you have attempted
10 to put a corrected time on the film which is Ritz front
11 door time; is that right?
12 A. That are, yes.
13 Q. But then the time on the particular film -- and we are
14 not going to look at any -- as before, appears in
15 brackets; is that right?
16 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: It is going to be a relief that
17 will be a relief that we are not going to have to look
18 at any.
19 MR HILLIARD: None at all.
20 As we have this document, we might as well just see
21 what you have prepared. There is a part at the end that
22 I think will be helpful. Page 2, we can see it is
23 headed at the top "Return to the Ritz Hotel" and that is
24 when the Princess of Wales and Dodi Al Fayed come back
25 from his flat, that is right, isn't it, from

2

1 Arsene Houssaye?
2 A. That is right.
3 Q. And three entries up from the bottom of that, page 2,
4 we can see 21.49, this is their Mercedes pulling up
5 outside the hotel, isn't it?
6 A. That is right, yes.
7 Q. And then, if we just turn on, we can see page 3. There
8 is a section that begins at 21.51, so after they have
9 returned, waiting outside the hotel.
10 A. That is right, yes.
11 Q. That goes on until page 6 and then page 6 deals with
12 the dummy run of the two vehicles around
13 the Place Vendome; is that right?
14 A. That is right, yes.
15 Q. And again, you have recorded in that section which of
16 the paparazzi can be seen and doing what, at that time;
17 is that correct?
18 A. Yes, that is right.
19 Q. If we turn over to page 7, let's just have a look at
20 this section in a little more detail. Do you remember,
21 Mr Croxford helpfully said yesterday that really, there
22 were two issues: one, were there other photographs that
23 had not been recovered and the second was quite who was
24 where and when in the following of the Mercedes on
25 the final journey.

3

1 Obviously we can get possibly some help on that by
2 seeing who leaves when, can't we?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. So this section that you have helpfully done here,
5 the departure from Rue Cambon, and then, if we turn over
6 to the top of page 8, at 4 minutes past midnight, you
7 have referred to film there that shows Mr Langevin and
8 Mr Benhamou being in the Rue Cambon?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And at 00.06, so 6 minutes past midnight, a small car
11 stopping next to the two of them in the Rue Cambon; is
12 that right?
13 A. Yes, which is probably Chassery.
14 Q. 10 minutes past midnight, they are still visible in that
15 road; yes?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. 12 minutes past midnight, you describe Mr Henri Paul
18 raising his hand as Mr Langevin, who was opposite in
19 Rue Cambon, raised his camera. And then Mr Benhamou and
20 Mr Langevin walking towards the service door?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. 16 minutes past midnight, the Mercedes arriving at
23 the rear of the hotel?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. A minute later, the four people leaving the hotel and

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1 Mr Odekerken's Pajero 4x4 arriving at the rear of the
2 hotel and stopping behind the Mercedes?
3 A. It is 7 seconds, actually.
4 Q. You are quite right. 17 minutes past midnight,
5 Mr Benhamou at the front right of the Mercedes,
6 Mr Chassery at the front left?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Later on, Mr Langevin and Mr Chassery on the left of the
9 Mercedes?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. The same minute, as it were, Mr Langevin in front of the
12 Mercedes, Mr Benhamou putting his helmet next to his
13 scooter?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And then at 17 minutes and 28 seconds past midnight,
16 the Mercedes pulling away from the service door at
17 the Rue Cambon?
18 A. That is right.
19 Q. And Mr Benhamou following on his scooter; is that right?
20 A. Yes, immediately behind it.
21 Q. A matter of seconds after that, Mr Odekerken's Pajero
22 4x4 following the Mercedes?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Mr Langevin walking back to his car and several other
25 vehicles following Mr Odekerken's?

5

1 A. That is right. Those are probably members of the public
2 who have been waiting. We have not been able to
3 identify of those.
4 Q. Then at 17 minutes past midnight and 46 seconds, we have
5 moved to the front of the hotel, is that right, so we
6 are on a different camera now.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. At that time, there is film, is this right, of Mr Rat
9 pushing through the crowd and away from the hotel. Is
10 that right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Back to the back of the hotel, 17 minutes past midnight
13 and 52 seconds, Mr Langevin leaving in his VW Golf back
14 to the front of the hotel. The lights on Mr Arsov's BMW
15 motorcycle come on; is that right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And very shortly after that, he moves off on his
18 motorcycle and you pointed out that at the point he
19 moves off, it is 30 seconds since the Mercedes left
20 the rear of the hotel?
21 A. That is right.
22 Q. Over the page, you record reference to two
23 unidentifiable motorcycles leaving, from the area of
24 the front of the hotel; is that right?
25 A. Yes.

6

1 Q. And then you have a section finally: departure of the
2 decoy vehicles.
3 A. Can I just say the two unidentifiable motorcycles
4 I believe are Rat and Darmon and Arsov.
5 Q. Then departure of the decoy vehicles and 18 minutes and
6 27 seconds past midnight, one of the Place Vendome
7 cameras, the decoy Mercedes and the Range Rover leave
8 from outside the hotel and you point out it is 59
9 seconds since the Mercedes left the back of the hotel?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Mr Cardinale pushing through the crowd away from
12 the hotel.
13 A. Yes, that is right.
14 Q. A motorcycle with two people on it, you think probably
15 Mr Suu and Mr Tomic leaves.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Twenty minutes past midnight, a motorcycle pulls up
18 outside the hotel at the back entrance; is that right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. 22 minutes past midnight, the decoy Mercedes stops at
21 the rear of the hotel?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. It is now just over four and a half minutes since what
24 I will call the real Mercedes, or the one with
25 the passengers in, left?

7

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Mr Suu walks towards the service door?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. The motorcycle is being ridden the wrong way up
5 Rue Cambon. Who is riding that?
6 A. That is Arsov.
7 Q. Right. It is now over five minutes since the real
8 Mercedes left. 22 minutes past midnight and 53 seconds,
9 Mr Cardinale arrives next to the parked decoy Mercedes?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Back to the front of the hotel, 23 minutes past
12 midnight, Mr Veres is still outside the hotel in
13 Place Vendome. So he has not gone anywhere?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Again, 23 minutes past midnight, as you have said,
16 Mr Arsov is the motorcyclist and he turns his bike
17 round; is that right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Moves off down Rue Cambon as do the Mercedes, the decoy
20 Mercedes and the Range Rover?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Suu and Tomic follow those vehicles?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. As does a small white car?
25 A. That being Cardinale's Citroen AX.

8

1 Q. And nearly 25 minutes past midnight, back to the front
2 of the hotel, Mr Veres leaves the front of the hotel on
3 his scooter?
4 A. That is right.
5 Q. Doing the best you can from what you can see on
6 the film, that gives us some idea of paparazzi final
7 movements?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR HILLIARD: Now we will look at the accounts of particular
10 individuals that you are going to help us with.
11 Sir, what we are going to do today, and it may make
12 it easier to follow, is in fact to hand out a bundle of
13 this material. I think when we are reading it, it will
14 mean the jury can follow it as we go along and I think
15 we will also be able to summarise material more easily
16 because you will be able to see that we will be able to
17 take some passages very shortly indeed. If we can hand
18 those out now?
19 Sir, one other thing to say, having discussed it
20 amongst ourselves but obviously subject to your view, it
21 had not been our intention to burden the jury forever
22 with this bundle and we thought we might take it back
23 when we finish the exercise, but perhaps we could review
24 it then.
25 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes, I think that would be

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1 sensible. That is the right way probably to do it
2 because the jury have access to LiveNote and that is
3 where it is.
4 MR HILLIARD: And there will be passages in this that we
5 will not actually refer to anyway.
6 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes. This is really an aid while
7 we are going through the exercise, so don't make any
8 notes on it. Make your notes anywhere else.
9 Evidence relating to MR ROMUALD RAT
10 Questions from MR HILLIARD
11 MR HILLIARD: Now, Mr Carpenter, we are going to start with
12 Mr Rat and I am not sure if we were looking at this
13 yesterday but in section 7 of the bundle -- we will have
14 a look at a photograph perhaps of each one before
15 we start -- section 7 we have a document that you
16 prepared, Mr Carpenter, called "Photographs of
17 Photographers". And at page 14 of that, just so that
18 we can see who as it were we are going to be listening
19 to, that is Mr Rat, isn't it?
20 A. I do not have a copy with me.
21 Q. Take it from me.
22 A. I am sure it is.
23 Q. You explain "Passenger on Darmon's dark blue Honda
24 motorcycle" and it is a photograph of Mr Rat at page 14,
25 section 7, taken by Veres outside the Ritz Hotel.

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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. All right. Do you have a copy of the bundle there?
3 A. I have my own.
4 Q. All right. So the very first document, we have
5 a statement that he made. We can see at the top, on
6 31st August 1997, it says at 20 to 12 and then there is
7 a formal part that is crossed through and then it goes
8 like this, doesn't it:
9 "On Saturday 30th August at around 13.30 hours,
10 I found out that Princess Diana was leaving Sardinia
11 with Al Fayed and that they were due to land in
12 a private jet at Le Bourget Airport. It was
13 a photographer from my agency, Stefan Lenhof, who told
14 me about this on my mobile.
15 "I informed my management, who assigned
16 a motorcyclist, Stephane Darmon, to me. We travelled on
17 a Honda which I think was black in colour.
18 "We went to Le Bourget and the aircraft arrived at
19 around 15.30 or 16.00 hours. There were four or five of
20 us photographers. We took some photos and Al Fayed and
21 the Princess got into a Mercedes, one shortly after
22 the other. A Range Rover was following the Mercedes.
23 With bodyguards on board.
24 "We followed them but we lost them after the driver
25 accelerated suddenly at the Porte de Champerret.

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1 "We therefore went to the Ritz, which belongs to
2 [Prince] Al Fayed and we waited for them for
3 three-quarters of an hour. They arrived via the rear of
4 the hotel at around 17.30."
5 A. That is wrong of course. It was an hour earlier.
6 Q. Yes:
7 "We once again waited. Some of the photographers
8 were at the rear, and the bulk of them at the front.
9 I myself was at the rear. At around 18.00 or
10 18.30 hours, the Mercedes, followed by the Range Rover,
11 came to collect the couple. Princess Diana got in first
12 and then the Prince [as he calls him] followed her.
13 They travelled at a gentle pace to number 1, Rue Arsene
14 Houssaye, where Al Fayed owns an apartment. They did
15 not drive quickly and the fact that there were only four
16 or five of us photographers was due to the others not
17 having guessed the right exit.
18 "We only took a few photos, and we had a few words
19 with a French security officer, who was preventing us
20 from taking photographers by hitting our cameras.
21 The heat was quickly taken out of the situation thanks
22 to the intervention of the English bodyguards.
23 Gradually, other photographers joined us and it ended up
24 with at least ten of us together there.
25 "We waited for about two hours and they came out one

12

1 after the other, without concealing themselves. They
2 then went back to the Ritz, driving normally I think,
3 because my motorcyclist had been held up by onlookers.
4 "We caught up with them where the Rue Saint Honore
5 meets Place Chassaigne Goyon. They went back into the
6 hotel via the main door. They got out of the vehicle
7 together, hurrying slightly. I went round to the back
8 of the Ritz for a moment and, when I got back,
9 a photographer told me that he had spoken to the English
10 bodyguards, who apparently said: 'They are eating,
11 they'll be going out again afterwards'.
12 "The one who appeared to us to be the head of
13 security at the Ritz confirmed this to us himself, and
14 was even keeping us informed. It seemed odd to me that
15 he should give himself such airs. It did not seem
16 right.
17 "At one stage, I saw photographers from the front of
18 the Ritz joining their partners in the Rue de Rivoli,
19 which is the route that you have to take if you are
20 leaving the Ritz via the rear.
21 "I realised that something had happened, and I took
22 the Rue de Rivoli, as far as Concorde.
23 "It was there that I saw a different Mercedes to
24 the one which had driven the couple until then.
25 The Range Rover wasn't there, as it was waiting outside

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1 the front of the Ritz with the Mercedes, with the usual
2 drivers. Behind the Mercedes there were four or five
3 cars, one motorbike and a scooter. The Mercedes was
4 stationary at a red light at the junction of the
5 Place de la Concorde and the Champs-Elysees.
6 "When the lights changed to green, the Mercedes sped
7 off to the embankment towards the Maison de la Radio
8 We never caught up with the vehicle, none of us. We
9 were all left stranded because of the speed of the car.
10 "We tried to catch up with them. I was among
11 the leading pursuers."
12 Pausing there, Mr Carpenter, leaving aside the issue
13 of whether or not they were left behind, he was
14 certainly putting himself at the front of the group; is
15 that right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. So he says:
18 "In the first tunnel, we did not see them.
19 "We decided to carry on to the embankment, slowing
20 down as we went. We were thinking of leaving it there
21 for the evening. However I think that the other
22 photographers were behind. When we got to Alma,
23 we heard a hooter. We carried on, and the first thing
24 we saw was the people on the left-hand lane who had got
25 out of their car. Then I saw a mangled car across

14

1 the road. I did not recognise it straightaway.
2 We slowed down, then we overtook the Mercedes, stopping
3 immediately in front of it.
4 "I put all my cases down and ran over to the car.
5 People were looking without doing anything.
6 I recognised Al Fayed, who was lying across the rear
7 seat completely contorted.
8 "People were coming up to look, not to help.
9 I thought that they were all dead. I got angry and
10 I got all the people away.
11 "I had my mobile in my hand, but I did not call
12 the emergency services because I had heard that someone
13 else had done so.
14 "After having got the people back, I returned to
15 the car and I managed to open the rear right-hand door.
16 "I saw Al Fayed in the back, and I saw that all
17 the people in the front were crushed.
18 "Diana was on the floor, between the rear seat and
19 the front passenger seat.
20 "I have some idea of first aid and I checked to see
21 if Diana was alive, feeling her pulse. I felt it and
22 she groaned and moved. I spoke to her in English
23 saying, 'Be cool, doctor will arriving'. I did not
24 touch her in any other way.
25 "I could also see that the bodyguard in the front

15

1 was also moving, and I also told him to be calm in
2 English.
3 "I also wanted to reach the battery but it was
4 impossible, given the state of the engine. I felt that
5 I was alone. I cried out in irritation.
6 "I saw an SOS Medecins car stopped in the lane in
7 the direction of Concorde, but I did not see anybody.
8 I do not think that anyone tried to render first aid to
9 the injured. In fact, I asserted myself through my
10 actions and did what I thought I had to do.
11 "I then saw a man arrive with an oxygen mask saying,
12 'I am a fireman'. I moved away. I picked up my cameras
13 and took a few photographs, without going up close.
14 I did this, seeing others were taking some. If I had
15 been alone, I might possibly not have done it. I did
16 not take any photos of the injured. That is something
17 I will not do, other than in a conflict.
18 "There were then some clashes because people were
19 attacking us, saying we were disgusting. I got angry,
20 saying that they had not lifted a finger until then.
21 "I took 20 or 25 photos, which is not remarkable in
22 our line of work."
23 Can we just pause there to break it up a little bit,
24 Mr Carpenter and just look, please.
25 If we take our bundle of paparazzi photographs, they

16

1 start at page 117. And these photographs of his, 117
2 through to 135, his was a case, as we are going to see
3 in a statement in a moment, where the police actually
4 seized his film, didn't they?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And if we turn through these, 117, we have Mr Arnal on
7 the left, not a particularly good picture at 118, 119,
8 taken from the other direction, 120, 121. We obviously,
9 by the time those photographs are taken, have a number
10 of individuals there who have been named; is that right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Same at 122, 123?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. One from across the other side of the road, page 124?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. We see traffic building up, can't we, if we look at 125
17 at the other carriageway?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Again, 126, not a very good photograph. You can see
20 the red jacket of one of the pompiers I think in 127
21 I think, more clearly than 128 and 129.
22 And the same really I think through to 135; is that
23 right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. All right. So if we just go back to the statement, he

17

1 says:
2 "I took 20 or 25 photos which is not remarkable in
3 our line of work.
4 "They got Al Fayed out, and I could not stand
5 the sight of his body. I moved away, and I sat down to
6 smoke a cigarette.
7 "I did not approach the vehicle again. I wanted to
8 leave because I found it revolting but a police officer
9 stopped us from doing so in order to take statements
10 from us.
11 "In reply to your question: on entering the tunnel
12 I saw smoke coming from the Mercedes and the rear lights
13 of another vehicle that was moving away, but that is
14 rather vague in my mind.
15 "I did not exchange any words with the police
16 officers or with my colleagues. I saw one police
17 officer in uniform trying desperately to push the
18 journalists back, he was alone but I did not have
19 the moral strength to help him and it was not up to me
20 to do it. Moreover, I didn't even think about it for
21 that matter.
22 "I cannot think of anything to add at present, other
23 than I did not understand why the Mercedes suddenly
24 drove so quickly since everything had gone so well
25 during the day, and a normal chauffeur knows that that

18

1 is not the way that you shake someone off. He took too
2 many risks."
3 He read that and signed it.
4 If we turn over the page, still on 31st August of
5 1997, it is just indicating that he was searched. It
6 says, fourth line of the text:
7 "... searched immediately after he was held for
8 questioning and the following items were found."
9 We have put a line through the ones that perhaps
10 don't really matter, but after the passage with a line
11 through it, we can see:
12 "One Canon [and the details are given] camera
13 containing a Fuji film with a flash and a battery."
14 A. That is right. Yes.
15 Q. And then, if we turn over please, we are now the next
16 day, 1st September 1997 and here was his response to
17 some further questioning:
18 "You tell me that several witnesses report that
19 I did not render assistance to the injured persons in
20 the Mercedes and that on the contrary, I behaved
21 aggressively, insulting the police, in order to take
22 some photos.
23 "I completely repudiate these accounts.
24 "I was indeed among the first to arrive on the scene
25 after the incident."

19

1 So he is saying that again, effectively?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. "We were on a motorbike, Darmon's Honda. We had lost
4 the Mercedes in which the couple were travelling when
5 they left the Ritz.
6 "We caught up with it when the Mercedes was
7 stationary at a red traffic light at the junction of the
8 Champs-Elysees and the Place de la Concorde. It took
9 off again like a shot when we drew level with it. At
10 that stage, I could not take any photos as I was putting
11 my helmet back on.
12 "No photographers took any photos while the Mercedes
13 was in motion. That is something that is not done in
14 France.
15 "You tell me that the two witnesses saw the Mercedes
16 having to brake due to a car at the entrance to
17 the underpass at the Alma Bridge and that at that point
18 a motorcycle was right on the limousine's tail.
19 "It was not the motorcycle on which I was
20 travelling. I was busy putting my helmet back on
21 though, and there could possibly have been a motorbike
22 in front of ours.
23 "I would like to point out that Darmon and I were
24 not the only ones on a motorbike at the lights. Anyway,
25 we were never right on the Mercedes' tail. We even lost

20

1 sight of it on a bend leading from the Place de la
2 Concorde to the embankment.
3 "By the time we were in the tunnel, we had given up
4 following the Mercedes and slowed down. It was because
5 we were intending to return to our agency ... that
6 we carried on towards the embankment.
7 "Then, we heard a sort of siren. In fact, it turned
8 out to be the Mercedes' hooter.
9 "In the Alma Tunnel, I say again that I first saw
10 people stopped on the other side of the road and that
11 some people had got out of their vehicle. Then, on the
12 right, I could see smoke and there was a smell of
13 burning rubber. I saw the crashed car. I did not
14 recognise it.
15 "The Mercedes was in fact in a frontal
16 three-quarters position. This was the less damaged
17 side. However my attention was drawn more to the front
18 of the vehicle, which was completely crushed.
19 "I did actually follow the Mercedes for a long time.
20 However, I did not recognise this as the Princess's car.
21 "Darmon went past the Mercedes and stopped in front,
22 further on, fearing an explosion.
23 "I dismounted, abandoning my helmet, camera and
24 lenses on the edge of the pavement by the motorcyclist.
25 I then rushed over towards the vehicle. It was as I was

21

1 approaching that I saw it was a Mercedes and I said to
2 myself that it could be them.
3 "I went over to the right-hand door and looked
4 inside. I thought they were all dead.
5 "I cried out shouting at the onlookers who were just
6 standing there.
7 "You point out that I had my mobile with me and that
8 the accident had just taken place. The fact that I did
9 not call the emergency services was because I heard
10 someone shout out 'I've called the emergency services'.
11 "You say that it is surprising for a photographer to
12 abandon the tools of his trade when an incident has just
13 occurred. My first thought was to go and see what was
14 wrong with the people and if I could do anything.
15 "It was me who opened the rear right-hand door.
16 I saw Dodi Al Fayed with his ... body on the rear seat,
17 stretched out, facing me, his eyes half open.
18 "I saw a floor mat on top of Princess Diana. I took
19 it off to see if she was alive and placed it ore
20 the lower abdomen of Al Fayed ..."
21 "I took the Princess's pulse and she groaned.
22 "A fireman in fact arrived after this, with a mask.
23 I do not actually know if it was him, but I remember
24 someone saying: 'I am a fireman'. I moved away to let
25 him go about his work.

22

1 "I did indeed shout out, 'She's alive' at one stage.
2 However, contrary to what that person says, I had not
3 taken any photographs. It is true that I was shouting
4 and that I had a slanging match with Martinez. This is
5 because he was telling me to calm down and I felt he was
6 too close to the car.
7 "It is true that I shouted at him because he was
8 taking photographs inside the car.
9 "Lots of journalists took photos. I saw one of them
10 running away towards the Maison de la Radio."
11 That is a building on the Cours Albert 1er?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. "I do not know who it was. So it is possible that some
14 films were taken away before the police and other
15 emergency services arrived."
16 So that is one of the issues, you will remember,
17 that Mr Croxford was raising yesterday. We know that
18 some film was in fact taken out of the tunnel and there
19 was Mr Rat saying it was possible that it had happened
20 as well?
21 A. That is right, yes.
22 Q. "None of the photographers present went to the
23 assistance of the casualties. I did not pay any
24 attention to what they were doing.
25 "It was only after the fireman's intervention that

23

1 I went and got my camera and took some photos of
2 the scene as a whole, with a wide angle. At no point
3 did I take any photos of the inside of the car. I even
4 stopped releasing the shutter when the firemen got
5 a body out.
6 "In reply to your question and contrary to what a
7 witness claims, I never said, 'It's your fault' to
8 another photographer.
9 "Contrary to what was also said, I did not have an
10 altercation with any police officers. I remember one of
11 them, who was fairly stocky, trying to push people away.
12 He did come over to me and when he pushed me back,
13 I moved away. I do not remember being aggressive
14 towards him. I actually think it is quite right and
15 proper that he should have tried to stop us taking
16 photos.
17 "I confirm that I did not give any film to anyone
18 before my arrest.
19 "I think I had used up my film at the Ritz.
20 I therefore started a film in the tunnel and changed
21 films once more."
22 And indeed, one of the items that we did not look
23 at, but it was a film that had been completely rewound?
24 A. Actually, he did not do what he said he did.
25 Q. You explain.

24

1 A. The first two photographs on that roll of film were
2 taken out outside the Ritz Hotel so he did not change
3 the film in the tunnel.
4 Q. He had one film that he had completed, certainly at the
5 time that the police --
6 A. Probably. The rest were with Darmon.
7 Q. "In reply to your question, I do know most of the
8 photographers who were there at the Ritz."
9 And he names some of them:
10 "It was David incidentally [that is Odekerken] who
11 I called on his mobile when I was on the bike after
12 giving up the chase. He told me that he was at Concorde
13 just as I caught sight of him. I do not know what
14 became of him afterwards or if he was in the tunnel."
15 There is a call, you may remember when we looked at
16 it, I am not going to turn it up now, but it is 00.21,
17 call 17 is between the two of them. So, 21 minutes past
18 midnight, there was a call. He gives the numbers and
19 says:
20 "I cannot think of anything further to add. I do
21 not understand why people are incriminating me in their
22 evidence.
23 "I do now have a doubt about one thing, however:
24 Whether or not I put my camera down or had it on me, but
25 I do not recall being encumbered by it so I think I must

25

1 have put it down with my helmet and lenses."
2 Then, still on the 1st, another statement. We can
3 take this one very shortly because he is shown two photo
4 albums which it says were produced from the films found
5 in the possession of "Stephane Darmon and me" and he
6 explains that Mr Darmon does not take photographs, he
7 does. And then he explains, is this right, that
8 the photographs start from the arrival of the couple at
9 Le Bourget Airport?
10 A. Yes, that is right.
11 Q. And then, he says that the photographs go on. He says
12 there are pictures taken at the Ritz just before
13 the couple left for the last time. Yes?
14 A. I think what he means is just when they left in the
15 afternoon.
16 Q. And then he says there are pictures after the accident
17 and he says there is no film for the period in between.
18 A. No.
19 Q. That is what he was saying, yes?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And the rest of that statement we need not trouble with
22 it is simply repetition about people that he says he
23 knows?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. If we go on please, the next one, 30th September at

26

1 1997, half past 2 or so in the afternoon, there is
2 a record of questioning with him; is that right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. If we turn to the second page, down at the bottom, it
5 says 2 of 21. Just below the passage that has a line
6 through it, he deals with his salary and he says it has
7 been 16,000 francs net since the beginning of the year.
8 That was presumably per month?
9 A. I would hope so.
10 Q. It says it is based solely on the percentage of
11 the photos which he takes that are sold, because not all
12 of them are; is that right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. He goes on to say:
15 "I would like to say that paparazzi work consists of
16 photographs that are taken by day without flash and from
17 a long way off. I mean, when you take photographs using
18 flash, that is not paparazzi work, it is news and that
19 is what we were doing that evening."
20 He goes on:
21 "This was the first time I had taken photographs of
22 Diana and Dodi as a couple ..."
23 And then at the bottom of that page, and we will
24 just summarise this because it is pure repetition, he
25 just explains how it was that he heard first that

27

1 the Princess of Wales was coming to Paris; yes?
2 A. That is right, yes.
3 Q. We turn over. He explains that that contact of his was
4 Stefan Lenhof, the name that we have seen before?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. At the beginning of the next paragraph, he explains that
7 Mr Darmon, who was going to be his driver, came to pick
8 him up from his home address; is that right?
9 A. That is right. Yes.
10 Q. He then explains that they went to the airport for
11 the arrival from Sardinia and in the middle of that
12 page, where it says "in answer to question", he explains
13 that he saw Mr Henri Paul waiting at the airport; is
14 that right?
15 A. That is right, driving the Range Rover.
16 Q. He then deals with the journey from the airport; is that
17 right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And can you see, there is an "in answer to question,"
20 towards the bottom, three lines up from that, he says,
21 do you see, "There was Chassery's car". He is dealing
22 with the journey from the airport:
23 "There was Chassery's, a black 205,
24 David Odekerken's Pajero, there was also a motorbike
25 from Angeli's I think and then us. I think that was

28

1 all."
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And then he says the 205, which is Mr Chassery's car:
4 "The 205 was perhaps in front of the vehicles that
5 we were following because of the traffic but definitely
6 not in order to slow down the cars which were not moving
7 quickly. I did not notice any dangerous manoeuvres on
8 the part of anyone at all.
9 "On the orbital road near the Porte de Champerret
10 there was a slight tailback. Then the Mercedes
11 disappeared.
12 "Together with the other photographers, we followed
13 the Range Rover a little way, it went towards
14 La Defense. We stopped very quickly, and as for me
15 I went with Darmon towards the Ritz."
16 Q. And again, we can summarise this. He explains in answer
17 to questions that he got to the Ritz. About halfway
18 down the page, he says at about 7 o'clock, that is
19 the time he gives, the couple came out of the hotel by
20 the Rue Cambon, do you see that?
21 A. That is right, yes.
22 Q. Six lines further down he makes reference to
23 the Rue Arsene Houssaye where they were going; is that
24 right?
25 A. That is right.

29

1 Q. He explains that he got there and had a bit of an
2 incident with a French bodyguard there, do you?
3 A. That is right.
4 Q. Who he says pounced on him to stop him taking
5 photographs; yes?
6 A. Yes, it says that.
7 Q. Bottom of that page, the last paragraph:
8 "At first we waited in the Avenue de Friedland at
9 the end of the Rue Houssaye. We were able to speak
10 a little with Mr Paul and the bodyguards who were very
11 relaxed and very friendly."
12 A. Obviously a mistake.
13 Q. Go on?
14 A. Henri Paul was not at Rue Arsene Houssaye.
15 Q. But talking about the bodyguards, he says it was pretty
16 amicable with them at that stage?
17 A. That is right.
18 Q. "There were also two drivers. The French bodyguard came
19 back and we spoke with him normally. We both
20 apologised."
21 That is for the incident he had had with the French
22 bodyguard earlier on, about taking pictures?
23 A. That is right.
24 Q. Over the page, about four lines down, he says:
25 "The couple came out about 10 pm."

30

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. He explains that they drove off and made their way back
3 to the Ritz and parked in the Place Vendome, do you see
4 that?
5 A. That is right. Yes.
6 Q. He says they took a little time to get out of the car;
7 yes?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And then he goes into a little bit more detail, do you
10 see, about the incident with the French bodyguard at Rue
11 Arsene Houssaye?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. We don't need that detail. And then he talks about
14 waiting at the Ritz. Do you see that?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Let's deal with that passage:
17 "When we were at the Ritz we waited quietly. I was
18 at the main entrance. There were a lot of curious
19 onlookers, perhaps 150 or 200 people. The atmosphere
20 was very relaxed. Mr Paul came to see us several times,
21 it was perhaps between 11.00 pm and midnight. At one
22 point he came to see me to ask my advice about cameras.
23 He noted flash reference numbers in his notebook [and
24 gives the number]. That was the same flash as the one
25 I have, which I gave him the particulars of.

31

1 "He also talked to Laslo Veres. When he left, Veres
2 and I discussed it and found it a little odd. That was
3 when I discovered that he was the security number two
4 and what shocked me was that he should come and talk to
5 us. At the Ritz, the drivers and doormen must not speak
6 to us and I think that is normal. His attitude was
7 completely the opposite. At one point he came to show
8 us something. I do not know if he was showing us
9 the sky or the column, I was with Langevin and one of us
10 said he must have been drinking. He was really strange.
11 He came out two or three times in front of the
12 photographers who were lined up and signaled to us 'in
13 five minutes' or in ten minutes, broadly speaking, he
14 was mocking us. It was at that moment that I took
15 a photograph of the Princess behind a curtain. I was
16 beside Veres and I think he did so too. Then they came
17 out."
18 He says.
19 "Question: What happened from what you saw and did
20 when they came out of the Ritz?
21 "Answer: I was waiting at the main entrance and at
22 a certain moment I realised certain photographers were
23 missing, particularly Odekerken. As I knew that
24 Chassery who was with him was behind me I told myself
25 that the couple must have come out at the back.

32

1 "I had indeed seen the Mercedes and the Range Rover
2 start up ten minutes or a quarter of an hour
3 previously."
4 That is the dummy run.
5 "After noting the absence of David Ker, I think
6 I called him on my mobile. He must have told me that
7 they had come out by the back, but I do not remember
8 very well. With Darmon on the motorbike, we immediately
9 went to the Rue de Rivoli and the Place de la Concorde.
10 When cars leave from the Rue Cambon, that is the route
11 they take. When we reached the Place de la Concorde in
12 front of the Crillon Hotel we turned left towards
13 the Seine. I took off my helmet and tried to call
14 David Ker. At that moment I noticed, stopped at
15 the traffic lights we were coming to, Ker's 4x4,
16 preceded by the Mercedes which did not have tinted
17 windows. I recognised the couple inside. The vehicles
18 were stopped at the traffic lights. These ... lights
19 are the ones which are in front of the Concorde car
20 park. It is therefore situated after the Crillon Hotel
21 and just before the traffic lights on the
22 Champs-Elysees. There may have been other vehicles
23 stopped at the traffic lights, maybe Chassery's 205 but
24 nothing else. I did not identify any other vehicle.
25 I do not remember whether I was through to Ker at that

33

1 point.
2 "The Mercedes shot off, the lights were green
3 I think. I did not pay attention. Darmon started to
4 accelerate. I told him, 'slowly' as I had not put my
5 telephone back in my pocket or my helmet back on my
6 head. Once I'd done all that, which must have taken me
7 four or five seconds, we accelerated. When we reached
8 the first right-hand band which gives access to
9 the embankment, the car had already disappeared.
10 We took the embankments but we were no longer very sure
11 because we could have taken the parallel road on the
12 right. 200 metres past the bend, since we could no
13 longer see the car, Darmon slowed down. I did not pay
14 attention to the presence of other vehicles. I was
15 concerned for myself. Stefan and I told ourselves
16 it was over and that for that evening, that was the end
17 of work. We had to go back to the agency to drop off
18 the photographs. When we reached the Alma exit, Darmon
19 asked me if I didn't want to check they were in the
20 Place. I told him no, we would leave it for that
21 evening. At that moment at first I did not pay
22 attention to it but I heard the noise of a siren.
23 We arrived under the Alma Bridge and there we came
24 across a car accident. When I arrived, I saw two or
25 three persons who were near the pillars and who

34

1 obviously came from the cars that were coming from
2 the opposite direction. I saw the crashed car which was
3 facing me but I did not recognise at all that it was
4 a Mercedes."
5 Then if we go down, I think it is four answers,
6 a little bit lower, do you see:
7 "In answer to question: I think that of
8 the photographers, Darmon and I were among the first,
9 but whether we were really first, I do not know. At
10 that moment I did not pay attention to my colleagues.
11 "When I got off the motorbike which we had parked,
12 I put down my helmet and a lens. I told Stephane to go
13 further with the motorbike and I ran towards the car."
14 He says, going on to the next "In answer to
15 question":
16 "When I ran towards the car I took two photographs
17 while running. When the crime squad showed me my
18 photos, I saw there was one which I had taken before
19 opening the door. I do not remember that one, but
20 I think I took that one at the moment when I got
21 the shock. I think this third photo was taken at the
22 moment when I stepped back after seeing Al Fayed in
23 the car. That lasted less than about 10 seconds.
24 It was very quick. I then returned to the car and
25 I opened the rear right-hand door. I opened the door to

35

1 try to give them some help. I learned that as I have
2 taken diplomas in first aid and resuscitation."
3 And as we will see, I think that is actually true --
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And then he explains as we have seen before, opening
6 the door and what happened after that.
7 Question in the middle of the page:
8 "Why when you arrived near the vehicles was your
9 first act to take photographs?
10 "Answer: It is a reflex which takes half a second.
11 Perhaps at that moment I told myself it was them.
12 I took two photographs, it is a reflex.
13 "Question: Why didn't you call the emergency
14 services on your mobile?
15 "Answer: I intended to, but I heard someone say,
16 'I have notified the emergency services', that happened
17 at the moment when I had just looked in the car. I know
18 I heard that. It was right at the start but I do not
19 remember it exactly."
20 Then he deals with the arrival of someone with
21 a mask, someone who said they were a fireman, yes?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And then, if we go over the page, he then deals with
24 the arrival of the police:
25 "I saw a police car which was in the same

36

1 carriageway just in front of the Mercedes."
2 He described speaking to a policeman:
3 "I was very, very tense. I was shocked, I was not
4 in my normal state. The policeman arrived and pushed us
5 back. I do not remember whether I had an argument with
6 him. I did not need to be close to the car as I was
7 taking long shots showing the whole accident scene.
8 I must have taken about 15 or 20 photographs."
9 Then says that Mr Al Fayed was taken out of the car.
10 He then went to the other carriageway, he says and he
11 put down his camera:
12 "Arnal was with me. We stayed where we were, both
13 of us I think in shock. Others continued taking
14 photographs. I think it was at that moment that Arsov
15 arrived. One or two other photographers came back and
16 then the policeman came to see us. Some policeman from
17 the Anti Crime Brigade I think came to see us and asked
18 us if we had seen anything. We told them we had not
19 seen anything. They asked us to wait and we said no
20 problem. That made it more than five minutes since
21 we had stopped taking photos. Veres arrived. He
22 explained to us that he had been allowed to pass through
23 the police barrier and that now they did not want him to
24 go.
25 "Question: According to certain witnesses, you are

37

1 said to have had an altercation with other photographers
2 to stop them taking photos?
3 "Answer: It is true that I had an exchange with
4 Martinez but it was not really an argument. It was
5 tension which was coming from everywhere, including
6 the police. I may have said to Martinez 'shut up' and
7 I may have told him to get back, but he was not
8 necessarily very close. As I remember, it was in
9 the pervading tension. I must point out that before
10 this argument I said to my colleagues: don't take any
11 photographs of the interior. I said that because it is
12 my opinion that they do what they want."
13 And then, it is pure repetition that is on that page
14 and down at the bottom of the page, we can summarise
15 this, he was simply shown and dealt with photographs
16 that he had taken earlier in the day?
17 A. That is right.
18 Q. So ones at Le Bourget, if we turn over to page 11 of 21;
19 photographs earlier at the Ritz, Arsene Houssaye and so
20 on.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. If we just go to the bottom of the page and look in our
23 album to see what he is talking about. It is page 117,
24 the very first photograph that we have, which is, if
25 we looking at the last answer on the page, the last five

38

1 lines, he says:
2 "These are photographs taken after my arrival at
3 the scene of the accident."
4 The photos D371, which is the picture we have at 117
5 and D370, that is the one of less good quality that
6 we have over the page --
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. He says those:
9 "... are the two photographs which I mentioned just
10 now which I took at the moment when I was making my way
11 towards the car after getting off the motorbike."
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Then he says:
14 "As regards photograph D369", which is the one we
15 have at page 119, taken from the other direction, yes.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Which shows the vehicle, he says:
18 "I do not remember at all taking this photo.
19 I think it is the one that I mentioned just now which
20 I would have taken before after going towards the car
21 and before stepping back. The following photos were
22 taken when I heard someone say: I am a fireman and then
23 stepped back. Besides, one can see in photo 368 [that
24 is photo 120] a person who is already in the car to give
25 assistance. One can also see the community policeman."

39

1 A. Yes, Dorzee in the middle.
2 Q. He says:
3 "In photo 367 [that is page 121] I think one of the
4 two men who appear on the right dressed in blue is
5 the one who said he is a fireman. I do not remember his
6 face, he had short hair.
7 "The following photos were taken by me later."
8 From 361, that is our page 127, onwards, we can see
9 that there are firemen there and we looked at that
10 earlier?
11 A. That is right.
12 Q. We don't need the detail of what follows on this page.
13 It is simply who he knows and when he saw them; is that
14 right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. That is page 12 of 21. Same again at 13 of 21, but just
17 last question at the bottom of 13 of 21, when he has
18 dealt with all of these people he knows.
19 "Question: Several witnesses mention shortly before
20 the accident the presence of a vehicle in front
21 of/behind the Mercedes. Do you have any information on
22 this point?
23 "Answer: As far as I am concerned, in view of the
24 speed at which the Mercedes left, none of the
25 photographers present had vehicles powerful enough to

40

1 follow it. The Mercedes was, as far as I am concerned
2 the first vehicle at the traffic lights at the Place de
3 la Concorde. I immediately lost it from sight after
4 the first bend.
5 "Question: Several other witnesses mention
6 immediately after the accident a motorbike passing
7 through the smoke coming from the vehicle?
8 "Answer: I am unable to say anything on this point.
9 As far as we are concerned, I did not have
10 the impression of arriving in a cloud of smoke and
11 furthermore, we stopped immediately."
12 Mr Carpenter, he was then asked, wasn't he, about
13 the sketch plan that we saw a long time ago. It is in
14 our I think divider 5. It is the very first page.
15 It is the sketch plan. Do you remember, the one that
16 was drawn by Mr Hackett?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. That plan shows the Mercedes and motorbikes and
19 a Peugeot. He talks about the "moto claire", do you
20 remember, the other motos and the Mercedes, so he had
21 done that drawing.
22 Another witness, Mr Hackett, says that he was
23 overtaken at the Alexandre III bridge by a Mercedes when
24 a motorbike was between him and this vehicle and other
25 motorbikes were following it. He shows him the plan and

41

1 he says:
2 "Darmon and I in any case were not among
3 the motorbikes mentioned by this witness. I did not see
4 any scene like that at any time."
5 The rest of that page is repetition. If we turn
6 over the page, so we are now on 15 of 21, he says:
7 "Question: The witness Gooroovadoo stated
8 concerning you ... that you were the one he noticed
9 most, that at no time did you give help to the injured,
10 that you were taking photos, that he had to push you
11 back. Your attitude revolted him so much and that you
12 argued violently with Martinez, with whom you are
13 supposed to have said, 'Fuck off, get away'."
14 And that statement was read to him:
15 "I do not know at what point this witness arrived on
16 the spot. I will say first of all that he says I had
17 the biggest camera whereas I certainly had the smallest.
18 As I have said from the start I gave assistance, apart
19 from the previous four or five seconds immediately after
20 my arrival. Maybe he arrived when the fireman and
21 the doctor had already arrived. As regards
22 the altercation that I am supposed to have had with him,
23 either he has the wrong person or he is lying. I was
24 taking long shots. I do not see why I am supposed to
25 have been close up.

42

1 "I will say that through my job, I know many
2 drivers. Some are my friends and those who pretend to
3 be important don't interest me and I don't talk to them.
4 I do not talk to them. We don't necessarily get on
5 well. I cannot rule out the possibility that this is
6 a driver I know and with whom I am on bad terms. In any
7 case, if he says I did not give assistance, he did not
8 either, that is for certain, at least before the arrival
9 of the doctor and fireman. As regards the altercation
10 with Martinez, it was not really an altercation, we were
11 all very tense at that moment. What was said was said
12 but at no time was I violent.
13 "Mrs L'Hostis ... recognised you as being one of the
14 most vicious photographers, having become irritated at
15 a policeman, saying 'let me do my job'.
16 "I exchanged some words with a policeman, I do not
17 deny it. As for being vicious, I was above all tense as
18 one may be when one has just seen three dead bodies in a
19 car. It was the first time I had seen any dead bodies.
20 "Mr Pelican ... recognised you as having been
21 present, crouched near the right rear door of the car,
22 near the princess without seeing what you were doing
23 exactly, you had a camera in your hand but were not
24 taking photographs?
25 "When I was crouched down it was to take the

43

1 Princess's pulse but I do not remember if I had my
2 camera or not at that moment. I do not think I had it
3 but I may be wrong.
4 "A Mr Dalby stated that you were bellowing like
5 a madman, 'aren't you ashamed to be taking photos' and
6 pushing all the photographers back.
7 "He may be speaking of the moment when I had the
8 little altercation with Martinez, but pushing the other
9 photographers back, no. I must have said they should
10 not take photos of the interior, but these are people
11 more experienced than me. They do what they want, each
12 according to his conscience.
13 "The witness Morel stated ... that you were a tall
14 man having an altercation with a smaller person who is
15 supposed to have said to you, 'But why did you do that?'
16 You are supposed to have replied, 'I had to, I could not
17 do anything else'. The little man, horrified, is said
18 to have added, 'But hell, why that?' and you are said to
19 have replied, 'I'm telling you, I could not do anything
20 else'.
21 "Answer: I think that this witness is mistaken as
22 that does not relate to me. As it is, I only had one
23 camera on me. I do not see who the little photographer
24 could be. Whether that relates to me or to someone
25 else, I did not see a scene like that under the bridge.

44

1 One thing is certain, that does not relate to me at all.
2 Moreover, I do not see who it could be."
3 I think that is sufficient from that, save, if
4 we just look at the two pages we have following, do you
5 remember, I was just asking you about that he confirmed
6 that he had some first aid qualifications. If we look
7 at the first one, it says that he is the holder of
8 a national first aid certificate issued on
9 6th June 1989. It then goes on to say that he had
10 successfully passed a distinction in resuscitation.
11 That was an exam in October of 1989; is that right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And then the next page is simply confirming his
14 6th June 1989 first aid qualification; is that right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And then, just finally in his section, there are some
17 pages from the confrontation. Do you remember, we heard
18 about that where lots of people are gathered together
19 and we know it happened on 5th June. We have the date
20 on here, 5th June 1998. What happened was that
21 the account that he had given that we have looked at was
22 summarised. That is on these first two pages that
23 we have, isn't it?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So if we turn on at the bottom, it will be 12 of 49.

45

1 That account was summarised and he said at the top of 12
2 of 49, third line down, he said, do you see:
3 "I confirm what I said in my statements."
4 And he goes on to say:
5 "I have nothing to add to the summary of them that
6 has just been made."
7 A. No.
8 MR HILLIARD: And Mr Carpenter, I think really the position
9 is that what follows is mostly a reflection in one guise
10 or another of what we have had already and if anybody
11 wants to draw any of that out, obviously they can. But
12 I think that is the most economical way to deal with it.
13 All right, so that is Mr Rat.
14 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you.
15 Mr Mansfield?
16 MR MANSFIELD: No thank you, sir.
17 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Weekes?
18 MR WEEKES: Yes, briefly, sir.
19 Questions from MR WEEKES
20 MR WEEKES: Good morning, Mr Carpenter, I think you know who
21 I am and doubtless what I plan to ask you about.
22 To go back to the start, we have obviously heard
23 a lot of the evidence that Mr Rat gave subsequently in
24 greater detail but it is right, isn't it, that he was
25 arrested in the tunnel on the 31st and he was

46

1 interviewed shortly afterwards?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. On the morning of the 31st by an Officer Deffez. And at
4 that stage he was being interviewed as a witness in an
5 investigation into a road traffic crash?
6 A. That is right.
7 Q. And he says, I think you may recall, but you should turn
8 up, it is at my tab 13B, and this is the statement which
9 begins, headed up "D340", UK139.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And it is interesting, because here he does actually
12 comment on Henri Paul, doesn't he?
13 A. He does.
14 Q. On page 2, it is just by the first hole-punch, he says:
15 "The one who appeared to us to be the head of
16 security at the Ritz confirmed this to us himself and
17 was even keeping us informed. It seemed odd to me that
18 he should give himself such airs. It did not seem
19 right."
20 A. That is right.
21 Q. And to state the obvious therefore, he does not say
22 "Mr Paul appeared to me to be drunk"?
23 A. No, he does not.
24 Q. And if you go to the final page, please of that
25 statement, the final paragraph:

47

1 "I cannot think of anything to add at present other
2 than that I did not understand why the Mercedes suddenly
3 drove so quickly, since everything had gone so well
4 during the day and a normal chauffeur knows that that is
5 not the way to shake someone off. He took too many
6 risks.
7 "After reading his statement, he signed it ..."
8 So again, Mr Rat refers to his opinion of
9 the driving of Henri Paul. That does not make any
10 allegation there as to Mr Paul being any way other than
11 sober.
12 A. That is right. I know you will make the point every
13 time that none of them say anything about that in their
14 first interview. They all wait until a long time
15 afterwards before any of them say anything about it.
16 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: And of course, the 31st August
17 was before the announcement from the French that he was
18 three times the drink drive limit.
19 MR WEEKES: Indeed.
20 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: So have we got the last drop out
21 of that lemon now, Mr Weekes?
22 MR WEEKES: I do wish to take it briefly, but obviously not
23 that briefly.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Obviously not, then.
25 MR WEEKES: If I may explain, the reason is your counsel has

48

1 quite sensibly and fairly adduced the statement that
2 Mr Rat makes about Henri Paul but I do think, with
3 respect, that it is necessary to put that in context and
4 the context, as you have indicated and Mr Carpenter has
5 indicated is plainly the time at which the allegation
6 becomes a public allegation, but also in this case,
7 it is actually what Mr Rat says to support the
8 allegation in question.
9 So I think we may be able to shortcut it by saying
10 that he obviously gives interviews again; in fact, he
11 gives two more substantive interviews before
12 the interview in which he alleges that Mr Paul has been
13 drinking?
14 A. That is right.
15 Q. And the interviews, as you have indicated, in which he
16 alleges that Mr Paul has been drinking is given in the
17 evening of 1st September and the evidence that we have
18 heard is that there was a press release and we have seen
19 the Evening Standard article on 1st September which
20 breaks the story to the Western world that Henri Paul is
21 supposed to have been over the alcohol limit.
22 A. He was in custody at that point, so I do not know what
23 access he had to the media at that point.
24 Q. Indeed, but equally you don't know whether or not there
25 was any conversation between him and any other person in

49

1 the investigating team relating to this allegation of
2 drunkenness?
3 A. No, not at all.
4 Q. If I could take you therefore to this statement in which
5 he makes this allegation, you have been taken there
6 before, but I do think it repays a little bit further
7 scrutiny.
8 It is my tab 13H and it is the statement which
9 begins at D1636.
10 The way these statements work, it is probably
11 easiest to refer to page 5 of 21, it is headed D1632.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Mr Hilliard has already referred you to the paragraph in
14 question which says there: "In answer to question".
15 So, if we can summarise from that paragraph, would
16 it appear to you, Mr Carpenter, that the basis for this
17 suggestion on the part of Mr Rat that Henri Paul had
18 been drinking is that he had had several conversations
19 with Mr Paul, in one of those conversations at least
20 they had discussed camera equipment?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Henri Paul had even taken some notes of that camera
23 equipment?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. But what shocked Mr Rat was that an employee of the Ritz

50

1 staff should be talking to a photographer?
2 A. Yes, which he obviously thought was unusual.
3 Q. He thought that was a little odd and he went to on to
4 say:
5 "It shocked me that he should come and talk to us.
6 His attitude was completely the opposite."
7 Presumably the opposite of the attitude to which
8 Mr Rat was normally acquainted with doormen and security
9 staff and suchlike.
10 A. It would appear so, yes.
11 Q. And then it goes on to say:
12 "Someone said he must have been drinking."
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And again, to state the obvious, there is no suggestion
15 here, is there, that Mr Paul's voice was slurred?
16 A. No.
17 Q. That he was unsteady on his feet?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Or that his eyes were glazed?
20 A. No.
21 Q. And as you will recall, the evidence that Lord Stevens
22 gave back on 14th February was that those three matters
23 to which I have referred you, eyes being glazed,
24 unsteadiness on feet and slurring of speech are
25 the three characteristics that a police officer would

51

1 use to determine whether someone was drunk?
2 A. A policeman's definition of somebody who is drunk.
3 Q. So again, simply to state the obvious, on the basis of
4 what Mr Rat says in his statement, you would not be able
5 to conclude that Henri Paul was drunk?
6 A. No.
7 MR WEEKES: Thank you, Mr Carpenter.
8 Questions from MR DE LA MARE
9 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes, Mr de la Mare?
10 MR DE LA MARE: Inspector Carpenter, as you know,
11 I represent the Ritz. Can I start by asking you some
12 questions about your review of the CCTV footage in
13 the schedule you have very helpfully put together.
14 Is it right to infer from the timings that you have
15 set out detailing the various people departing from
16 either Rue Cambon or Place Vendome that we can eliminate
17 certain paparazzi in participation in what might call
18 the chasing pack?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Am I right that the people one can eliminate are
21 Mr Veres, Mr Hounsfield, Mr Suu and Tomic who were on
22 the same bike and Mr Cardinale and Mr Arsov, by reason
23 of the fact that he is the motorcyclist you see double
24 back the wrong way up Rue Cambon and then perform
25 a U-turn, some considerable time after the departure of

52

1 the Mercedes.
2 A. I always had my doubts about Mr Arsov. He does not have
3 the time to get to the tunnel and back in those four and
4 a half minutes.
5 Q. And you may remember the evidence of Mr Benhamou, that
6 he was overtaken at some point after the Mercedes by
7 a white trial bike that he identified as being
8 Mr Arsov's; another piece of the jigsaw suggesting he
9 was some considerable time after the Mercedes?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. So on the basis of that view of the evidence, we can
12 eliminate those people from being in any pack around
13 the Mercedes?
14 A. I believe so, yes.
15 Q. Can I ask you one further question: it does not appear
16 in your review, and it may not be a matter that you were
17 looking out for, that there is any evidence of
18 Mr Guizard having been around the front of the hotel?
19 A. I looked for him. I could never find him.
20 Q. Because as you are aware, we heard the evidence
21 yesterday, Mr Guizard's account and we will definitely
22 come back to this when Mr Gigou returns, is that he went
23 round to the front of the hotel at about 10.30 in order
24 to give Mr Martinez some sandwiches?
25 A. I think he says it was at the back.

53

1 Q. Either at the front or the back, we have no footage. Is
2 that something you have looked specifically for?
3 A. I have looked to see if I could identify vehicles and
4 I have seen there a couple of times a light coloured
5 vehicle is seen in Rue Cambon. But the footage at
6 the back is not particularly good. I would not like
7 to --
8 Q. Can I ask you, can you have a look through that footage
9 and see if you can see the mythical sandwich exchange?
10 A. Yes, I have to say I have never noticed Martinez and
11 Arnal at the back.
12 Q. Thank you for that. Can I ask you some general
13 questions drawing on your experience as a policeman and
14 dealing with this type of evidence. As you are probably
15 aware, one of the themes I want to develop with you is
16 the manner in which Mr Rat's evidence changes or
17 develops by way of embroidery.
18 In your experience as a policeman, in circumstances
19 where you have a number of witnesses providing eye
20 witness account as to what has happened and a number of
21 participants in an alleged event also providing their
22 stories, it is highly significant, isn't it, when
23 accounts either conflict in basic details?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Or when accounts develop very substantially after

54

1 the initial interviews. That is a telling feature,
2 isn't it?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And it is a feature that any experienced detective would
5 wish to take for forward with that witness and press
6 them on?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. In the sense that, for instance, where in a later
9 account a new element is added to the story which was
10 not present in the earlier account and should have been,
11 that is something you will press that witness on?
12 A. You want to establish all of the facts.
13 Q. Because the concern is, of course, that the later
14 the evidence emerges, the more possible it is that
15 the account is being tailored artificially or
16 untruthfully in order to exculpate that witness?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Thank you very much. Let's then turn to the account of
19 Mr Rat. As Mr Croxford indicated, there are a number of
20 key areas the Ritz wishes to concentrate on. It is fair
21 to say by way of general summary that Mr Rat had been
22 amongst the most prominent and persistent of
23 the paparazzi following or pursuing Diana
24 Princess of Wales and Dodi Al Fayed during the course of
25 the arrival from Le Bourget. He was there all day and

55

1 at every material stage?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Let's then cut to the chase as it were, forgive the pun.
4 Mr Rat's story about his pursuit of the Mercedes from
5 the Ritz. His initial account is in tab 13B, isn't it?
6 That is the very first version of events that he gives.
7 And in that version of events, he describes himself
8 initially as trying to pursue the Mercedes?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. But his explanation was that he was unable to keep up,
11 no more than that. It was a simple question of speed?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And that is fairly consistent with the account that
14 Mr Darmon originally gave, isn't it?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. But it is pretty clear that that initial story of being
17 burned off at the lights was very substantially
18 embroidered thereafter, wasn't it, because when we come
19 to the account at 13E, we see being introduced into
20 the account is this new explanation of the helmet and
21 the various telephone calls and the various things that
22 he was doing at the time?
23 A. Yes.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: I think we also heard some
25 evidence about Mr Darmon's vehicles being able to "burn

56

1 off" the Mercedes, didn't we?
2 MR DE LA MARE: Indeed, we did. I was going to come to
3 that, sir, but perhaps now is a good time to come to
4 that.
5 The French testing of the various motorbikes
6 established that the bike of the kind Mr Darmon was
7 driving would have no difficulty whatsoever in keeping
8 up with the Mercedes, would it?
9 A. No. I think they established that of all the vehicles
10 being used by the paparazzi, his was the slowest and he
11 would still be able to keep up.
12 Q. And we remember the evidence of Mr Reed, to the effect
13 that the Mercedes was, if anything, underpowered?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And Mr Keen's characteristically dry remark about: did
16 the Mercedes have any problems keeping up with your
17 bike. That was the real truth of the situation, wasn't
18 it?
19 A. More likely.
20 Q. The speed machine on the block was in fact Mr Darmon's
21 motorbike.
22 It is perhaps for that reason that we have this
23 initial account of being unable to be kept up based upon
24 the mistaken premise that it was a more powerful
25 Mercedes S600, subsequently changing into a later story

57

1 of various delays, and for want of a better word,
2 faffing in Place de la Concorde?
3 A. And as you say yesterday they had a vested interest in
4 not being too close to the car.
5 Q. Absolutely, but there are some very considerable
6 inconsistencies even in that respect. For instance, in
7 the statement at 13E, you can see Mr Rat describing
8 himself as having drawn level with the Mercedes?
9 A. Yes. At the traffic light.
10 Q. And yet later, he portrays himself as being almost half
11 a block behind the Mercedes, seeing it being parked
12 alongside Mr Odekerken's 4x4?
13 A. Yes, it tends to move around a bit.
14 Q. So it is fair to say that he has great trouble getting
15 his story straight as to exactly where he is. his story
16 is internally inconsistent as to where his motorbike is
17 placed. He cannot decide whether he is alongside it or
18 substantially behind it?
19 A. No.
20 Q. He cannot decide whether it burns him off at the lights
21 or whether he is looking for his mobile phone and
22 suchlike?
23 A. That is right. And even when he does say that, it is
24 only 4 or 5 seconds on a motorbike. 4 or 5 seconds
25 would not be a lot to make up.

58

1 Q. Indeed. And by the time we come to the statement at
2 13I, he is even coming round to the version of events
3 that he instructs Mr Darmon to slow down?
4 A. Yes, further back actually than I thought, than I had
5 remembered. I thought he is saying well back in
6 Place de la Concorde, he is telling him to do that.
7 Q. Now, if this story of events was indeed true, Mr Rat
8 would be some distance behind the Mercedes and he would
9 have been stopped by the human chain put across the road
10 described by the Cathelines and Miss Da Costa?
11 A. If what he is saying is right, he possibly could.
12 Q. And there is no mention of that at all?
13 A. No.
14 Q. What this is strongly suggestive of, I suggest to you,
15 Mr Carpenter, is that this story is a convection?
16 A. It is constructed to suit his purpose.
17 Q. Indeed. It is also notable that this is a story that
18 consistently rows out the people he is working in
19 concert with. Let me explain what I mean by that.
20 The objective evidence as to telephone calls shows
21 a repeated number of telephone calls between Mr Rat and
22 Mr Odekerken?
23 A. That is correct.
24 Q. There is something like eight or nine telephone calls
25 between them in the period of the chase?

59

1 A. That is right.
2 Q. And Mr Darmon blew the whistle somewhat when he
3 indicated that Mr Rat was tipped off to the departure
4 from the rear by Mr Odekerken?
5 A. That is right.
6 Q. Indeed, the evidence suggests that such was the contact,
7 so prolonged was it, that they were it actually working
8 in concert?
9 A. Effectively, yes.
10 Q. They were working as part of a pursuing team. It is
11 strange that they were doing that, given that they were
12 from rival agencies?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. So the only rational explanation therefore, is that
15 there was some form of agreement between them to work in
16 concert?
17 A. Possibly.
18 Q. That is not a theme that was never explored with them by
19 the French investigations?
20 A. No.
21 Q. We have seen no evidence of it in the questioning .
22 A. No.
23 Q. But one would have thought is an obvious question to ask
24 given what the mobile phone records shows, given what
25 the other evidence of other witnesses such as Mr Darmon

60

1 is as to the cooperation between them?
2 A. Perhaps, yes.
3 Q. And indeed we have had the benefit of the evidence from
4 Mr Lennox that amongst paparazzi photographers, that was
5 a common practice, to effectively cooperate, to secure
6 between one another a team to secure exclusive
7 photographs?
8 A. You have other examples: Arnal and Martinez are both
9 from rival agencies and they are working together.
10 Q. Yes, yes. But what is conspicuous in Mr Rat's
11 statements is a complete failure to give any candid
12 account of this cooperation with Mr Odekerken. One
13 starts with a statement at 13B, you can see about
14 halfway down the page, number 2, his account as to how
15 he realised the car was leaving from the Rue Cambon; do
16 you see?
17 A. "I noticed Odekerken had gone".
18 Q. No, he says:
19 "At one stage I saw photographers from the front of
20 the Ritz joining their partners in the Rue de Rivoli ...
21 I realised something had happened and I took
22 the Rue de Rivoli as far as Concorde."
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. There is no mention there of Mr Odekerken having
25 telephoned him?

61

1 A. No.
2 Q. He has covered up from him effectively.
3 A. Yes, effectively.
4 Q. And then when we come on to 13E, you will see again
5 there is no account here of anything to do with
6 Mr Odekerken?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Indeed, the only mention of Mr Odekerken is at page 3 of
9 3 where he simply says:
10 "In reply to your question, I do know most of the
11 photographers who were there at the Ritz and later on.
12 The one in the Pajero was called David Odekerken. He is
13 freelance. The other is Fabrice Chassery, he is also
14 freelance."
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. There is no mention at all of his interchange with
17 Mr Odekerken, his conversations with him. It is
18 anything but candid?
19 A. He is not giving much away.
20 Q. Indeed not.
21 And if we turn to 13F, page 2, he mentions
22 Mr Odekerken twice in this context. He says:
23 "Prior to this, I had called him, just when I caught
24 up the Mercedes at Concorde, just before the accident."
25 A. Yes.

62

1 Q. That is a highly abbreviated version of the various
2 telephone calls and omits what Mr Darmon said about
3 the tip-off coming from Mr Odekerken.
4 Then below you can see he says:
5 "I can provide some details regarding the Pajero.
6 It was driven by Odekerken, teamed with Chassery. At
7 the time of the departure from the hotel, I don't think
8 they were together. I did not see them in the tunnel."
9 We know that Mr Odekerken was in the tunnel, don't
10 we?
11 A. We know that both of them were in the tunnel.
12 Q. Indeed we do. So again, that statement "I did not see
13 them in the tunnel" seems designed to cover up their
14 presence?
15 A. Yes. Of course, when this statement was taken, they had
16 not actually been found.
17 Q. Indeed. As Inspector Gigou explained, the interviewees
18 on 1st September were still in garde a vue. They had
19 not had an opportunity to get their stories straight and
20 Chassery and Odekerken did not come forward until
21 I think it was 3rd September?
22 A. 4th, I think.
23 Q. 4th. So, further evidence for him covering for his
24 partner. Then, in 13I, at page 6, near the top of the
25 page, we see slightly more candid version of events but

63

1 one that still does not really seem to conform with what
2 we now know happened:
3 "I was waiting at the main entrance and at a certain
4 moment, I realised that certain photographers were
5 missing particularly Odekerken. As I knew that Fabrice
6 Chassery was with him was behind me, I told myself
7 the couple must have come out at the back."
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. So he is continuing to lie about this, isn't he?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. About two-thirds of the way down, the paragraph
12 starting:
13 "There may be other vehicles stopped at the traffic
14 lights. Maybe Chassery's 205, but nothing else. I did
15 not identify any vehicles. I do not remember whether
16 I was through to Ker at that point."
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. That is really the first time he admits that there is
19 some form of continuing communication going on?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. So, we have the embroidery about pursuit, we have
22 the cover-up of Mr Odekerken. Then we have the, for
23 want of a better word, downright lies that he initially
24 tells about whether he took photographs on his arrival
25 at the scene, don't we?

64

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Because his initial account, going back to 13B, page 3,
3 is that he did not take any photographs until after
4 Dr Mailliez had arrived?
5 A. No, that is clearly not right.
6 MR DE LA MARE: That is clearly untrue, isn't it?
7 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr de la Mare, how long are you
8 going to be, because we have reached a point where
9 the shorthand writers certainly need to have a break.
10 MR DE LA MARE: Possibly ten minutes, sir. It is probably
11 safest to stop.
12 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Quarter of an hour, members of
13 the jury.
14 (11.00 am)
15 (A short break)
16 (11.17 am)
17 (Jury present)
18 MR DE LA MARE: Inspector Carpenter, before I come on to
19 the photographs, I should clarify a point in relation to
20 the mobile telephone calls. I think I put it to you
21 that Mr Odekerken had called M Rat whereas Mr Stokes'
22 evidence shows that in fact the calls were incoming from
23 Mr Rat to Mr Odekerken. But to go back to what
24 Mr Darmon said in his witness statement from the 31st,
25 the way he put it was as follows:

65

1 "At about 12.30, Romuald had a call from one of the
2 guys hiding out at the rear exit of the Ritz, telling
3 him that a third car had just left with the Princess and
4 her boyfriend in it. He was told it was a big Mercedes,
5 a 600SL, I think, identical to the one that had been
6 used up until then."
7 So I think what we learn from that is that
8 the substance of the information undoubtedly did come
9 from a colleague at the back, which was Mr Odekerken and
10 in the course of that conversation, Mr Odekerken said
11 it was a Mercedes 600SL and that was both the origin of
12 the information for Mr Rat to set off from
13 the Place Vendome and the basis for his original story
14 of being burnt off at the lights by a Mercedes 600SL?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So I think that is the correct position.
17 Again, before we come on to the photographs, there
18 are one or two other strange inconsistencies in Mr Rat's
19 statements. The first is, in his statement at 13B, this
20 is on 31st August, it is a passage that Mr Weekes took
21 you back it. It is right at the end, on page 4 of 4
22 where he says:
23 "I cannot think of anything to add at present other
24 than I do not understand why the Mercedes drove away so
25 quickly since everything had gone so well during the day

66

1 and a normal chauffeur knows that this is not the way
2 you shake someone off. He took too many risks."
3 Very strange statement, that he took too many risks?
4 A. It is a very strange statement if you did not see what
5 was happening.
6 Q. Indeed, because according to Mr Rat all he saw was the
7 Mercedes accelerate round the corner and he never saw it
8 again?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. It rather suggests that he was indeed in close pursuit
11 of the Mercedes and then what happened was what was
12 described by Mr Hackett and other witnesses of a car
13 being pursued, boxed in by other vehicles?
14 A. And when you come to Mr Arnal, there is a bit of
15 a question there, because Arnal says that he could still
16 see the Mercedes in the Alexandre III tunnel and Rat was
17 in front of him.
18 Q. Indeed there is and we will explore that when we do come
19 on to look at Mr Arnal's statements but you are quite
20 right to mention that.
21 The other very strange statement is the statement of
22 1st September at 13E. It is on page 2. Where, again,
23 quite inconsistently with his account, he describes
24 the initial sight of the Mercedes. He says it was:
25 "In fact in a frontal three-quarters position. This

67

1 was the less damaged side. However, my attention was
2 drawn more to the front of the vehicle, which was
3 completely crushed."
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. "I did actually follow the Mercedes for a long time.
6 However, I did not recognise this as the Princess's
7 car."
8 Well, again --
9 A. We are not quite sure what he means there, whether he
10 means he just kept staring at it or whether he meant he
11 followed it en route. It is a bit ambiguous.
12 Q. We can look up the original French. I think the gist --
13 and we will check with the original French -- is that he
14 was following, "poursuivre", the Mercedes for a long
15 time and yet, notwithstanding that, he did not recognise
16 it when he saw it.
17 A. No.
18 Q. Back to the photographs, we will be looking at the fact
19 that the initial account on the 31st was that he only
20 took photographs after Dr Mailliez arrived, that account
21 then moved on by the statement of 1st September.
22 You can see the account given now on page 2, he
23 dismounted, abandoned his helmet, camera and lenses at
24 the edge of the pavement and then rushed towards
25 the vehicle. So, again, he is still saying he took no

68

1 photographs and indeed, left his camera behind.
2 Again, what is more, he goes on to say:
3 "You point out that I had my mobile with me and
4 the accident had just taken place. The fact that I did
5 not call the emergency services was because I had heard
6 someone shout out, 'I have called the emergency
7 services'."
8 So he is suggesting that he would have done and
9 it was not the fact that he was taking photographs that
10 stopped him, but for the fact he was told by someone
11 else that that had already happened?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. That is another lie, isn't it?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Because what we will see in a second is that the first
16 thing he did was take photographs. He then goes on to
17 say:
18 "You say it is surprising for a photographer to
19 abandon the tools of his trade when an incident has just
20 occurred. My first thought was to go and see what was
21 wrong with the people and if I could do anything."
22 That is another barefaced lie, isn't it?
23 A. On the evidence of the photographs, it appears to be.
24 Q. Indeed. Then, over the page, page 3 of 3:
25 "It was only after the fireman's intervention [that

69

1 is some considerable time after Dr Mailliez arrives]
2 that I went and got my camera and took some photographs
3 of the scene with the wide-angled ... "
4 A. To be fair, I think he is probably talking about
5 the off-duty firemen.
6 Q. What, Mr Dorzee and Pennequin?
7 A. Well, Mr Darmon(sic) or the off-duty fireman who
8 we never identified.
9 Q. But even so, that is still a while later?
10 A. Still a while.
11 Q. Then in the passage that we read earlier, by the time he
12 is finally confronted with the photographs, he advances
13 this new case, doesn't he, that he jumped off the bike
14 and as some kind of reflex action fired off a couple of
15 shots in half a second or a couple of seconds. That too
16 is untrue, isn't it? Can we look at the photographs at
17 117 to 119.
18 A. I think the first thing to notice is that apart from
19 somebody way back in the background in the tunnel, there
20 is nobody standing coming out of cars on the other side
21 of the tunnel as described.
22 Q. Indeed, and so there is no one that could have called
23 the emergency services?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Indeed, if we start with Mr Arnal's photographs at

70

1 page 1, you can see that they must have parked up some
2 way beyond the Mercedes and then run towards it?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. So by the time we come to the photograph at 117, both
5 Mr Rat and Mr Arnal have run towards the car, there has
6 been sufficient time for the car in the bottom
7 right-hand corner with the white flash stripe in it to
8 emerge into the picture when it does not seem to appear
9 anywhere in photograph number 1.
10 A. Sorry, say that again?
11 Q. You see at 117 there is a car passing the Mercedes.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. That car is not visible in the first shots taken by
14 Mr Arnal.
15 A. No.
16 Q. At 1, 2 and 3.
17 A. That is right.
18 Q. So, Mr Rat has run forward with his camera and he has
19 the waited, unlike Mr Arnal, until he has a well-lit
20 shot?
21 A. Possibly.
22 Q. He has then taken the photographs at 117 and 118, which
23 are both from roughly the same position. So, fired off
24 in quick succession.
25 A. Yes.

71

1 Q. But then has gone beyond the car, the doors of which are
2 still closed and taken the photograph at 119?
3 A. Possibly, yes.
4 Q. Which must be some seconds after the photograph is taken
5 at 118.
6 A. Yes, he says he took that photograph having seen Dodi's
7 body in the car and then having stepped back. If that
8 is true, he stepped back a long way.
9 Q. Indeed and it is not a question of a couple of reflex
10 shots, it is a studied plan to get photographs of behind
11 and in front of the car. So, again, his account, even
12 as elaborated in front of the evidence put before him is
13 untrue, isn't it?
14 A. If you look at Arnal's sixth photograph at page 6, there
15 is a sleeve in the corner.
16 Q. That looks like Mr Rat's sleeve, doesn't it?
17 A. It could well be. They were both there at the same
18 time.
19 Q. It is a denim sleeve and he was wearing a distinctive
20 denim jacket, wasn't he?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Which I think he later took off.
23 What all of this would suggest, I would put to you,
24 Inspector Carpenter, I think you will agree, is that
25 there is a very strong likelihood that Mr Rat was very

72

1 close to the Mercedes at the time of the crash?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And these inconsistencies and these lies that he has
4 told have not actually been followed up by the French
5 investigation, have they?
6 A. They have examined him and he stuck to his story. They,
7 like us, could not go any further with it, I assume.
8 But I have always thought when somebody said they saw
9 a motorcycle coming out of the smoke, I have always
10 thought that that was Rat's motorcycle.
11 Q. And we have heard the evidence from I believe
12 Mr Hackett, Mr Anderson, Mr Peyret, Banjout, L'Hostis,
13 Partouche, et cetera, about bikes being in very close
14 attendance to the Mercedes?
15 A. Only the number varied but most people say there were
16 motorcycles there.
17 Q. Mr Rat must be a prime candidate for being one of those
18 motorcyclists?
19 A. Undoubtedly.
20 Q. That explains why he told the many lies that you have
21 accepted that he has?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And that also explains why he is unwilling to come and
24 give evidence to this court today?
25 A. It is one of the reasons.

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1 Q. Certainly a rational explanation of it.
2 Mr Rat himself describes himself as being part of
3 a "pursuing pack". If you go back to his statement at
4 13B, on page 2, you can see that there is a different
5 Mercedes to the one that had been driven by the couple
6 until then, behind the Mercedes there were four of five
7 cars, one motorbike and a scooter, et cetera et cetera
8 et cetera. He says:
9 "We tried to catch up with them. I was among
10 the leading pursuers."
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And then, if we look at 13E, he says that there could
13 possibly have been a motorbike in front of ours, about
14 halfway down page 1 of 3.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And then he and Darmon were not the only ones on
17 motorbikes at the lights. We know that Mr Benhamou was
18 on a scooter and all the witnesses are quite careful to
19 distinguish between motorbikes and scooters, they are
20 bike nuts?
21 A. They are.
22 Q. So we have another bike that we have been unable to
23 identify amongst the pack. Indeed, there are witnesses
24 that see bikes driving away immediately from the scene
25 without stopping?

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1 A. Yes. I think you have to be a bit careful with
2 the witnesses, but certainly the allegation is there.
3 Q. It is indeed, isn't it?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And what we know about what Mr Rat did in the immediate
6 aftermath is that he made two telephone calls, one was
7 to his home number, and then one some time after that
8 was to his agency.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And thereafter, we know of someone making a call to
11 Mr Lennox, whether it was Mr Rat or not is really
12 difficult to take any further, that evidence from Mr Rat
13 or from his agency, offering to sell photographs from
14 the scene?
15 A. I think the fact that Mr Lennox received photographs
16 from Big Pictures indicates to me that they were
17 probably done by Sola or someone on his behalf rather
18 than Rat, to be honest.
19 Q. But Mr Odekerken worked for Laurent Sola and
20 Big Pictures?
21 A. He did indeed.
22 Q. And we assume that the concerted action between Mr
23 Odekerken and Mr Rat was strongly suggestive of the fact
24 that they were working together?
25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. So the fact that the Big Pictures lot, if you want, and
2 LSD, follow up on Mr Rat's initial approach is quite
3 consistent with that?
4 A. I think you are pushing me a bit far to say Rat gave his
5 film to Odekerken, I have no way of knowing.
6 Q. If there is a joint agreement to sell whatever film
7 whoever in the cartel or agreement gets out of the
8 tunnel, then what has happened is completely consistent
9 with that?
10 A. Yes, possibly.
11 MR DE LA MARE: No further questions. Thank you very much.
12 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Horwell?
13 MR HORWELL: No thank you.
14 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Hilliard?
15 MR HILLIARD: No. Mr Carpenter, thank you.
16 Evidence relating to MR NIKOLA ARSOV
17 Questions from MR HILLIARD
18 MR HILLIARD: The next one, please, is Mr Arsov. That is
19 the next one in our bundle and we have a picture of him
20 in your photographs of the photographers section 7.
21 It is at page 3. And there he is, Nikola Arsov, rider
22 of white BMW motorcycle.
23 A. That is right, yes.
24 Q. Now, the first account we have is an interview that was
25 conducted with him on 31st August 1997. It says this:

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1 "I can tell you exactly what I did on 30th August
2 1997.
3 "I went to Pithiviers for a photo report on the
4 problems that the nursing staff are currently having at
5 the hospital. I made a film. I got there about midday
6 and left about 4 o'clock.
7 I rented a Seat Toledo car earlier to go to
8 Pithiviers. The car key was on me when I was searched.
9 "When I got back to Paris at 5 o'clock, I went to
10 the agency to develop my films which were going to
11 appear in the Journal du dimanche this morning.
12 "There was a rumour amongst the press that Princess
13 Diana might be in Paris.
14 "Because of that, I went to the Ritz Hotel in
15 the Place Vendome. It is common knowledge that
16 the hotel is owned by her current boyfriend Dodi.
17 "I went to the Ritz on my BMW motorbike.
18 "When I got there I found a crowd of people there.
19 It must have been 8 pm. I saw other photographers
20 there.
21 "At about 10 o'clock the Mercedes dropped
22 the Princess and Dodi off inside the hotel. I did not
23 have time to take a photograph. There was
24 a British-registered Range Rover four wheel drive behind
25 the Mercedes.

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1 "The English bodyguards protecting the Princess
2 spoke to the photographers and said the couple were
3 having dinner and would be coming out again later. They
4 asked us to take photos from a distance so as not to
5 upset the couple.
6 "Around midnight I saw two cars leaving the Ritz,
7 the Range Rover and the Mercedes. From where I was
8 standing, I could not see which car the couple were in.
9 "I decided to follow the Range Rover. The route it
10 took was as follows: Place Vendome, Rue Castiglione,
11 Rue de Rivoli, Place de la Concorde, Champs-Elysees,
12 Avenue Winston Churchill, Cours la Reine and then
13 Avenue Marceau. The tunnel was already closed off and
14 the police were stopping anyone going through.
15 I stopped following and started going back to the
16 agency. I was by the tunnel exit when I saw the Gamma
17 agency's motorbike and the motorcyclist... "
18 That would be Mr Darmon, wouldn't it?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. "... I stopped by it and I saw lots of flashing lights
21 in the tunnel about 40 metres from the exit.
22 "The Gamma motorcyclist told me that the victim of
23 the accident was Princess Diana. I parked my motorbike
24 to the right of the tunnel exit and went towards
25 the scene of the accident. Several policemen were

78

1 there. There was quite a panic. I saw several
2 photographers at work around the car. I was able to
3 approach the car and I saw there was a man in
4 the driver's seat and the Princess was at the back with
5 her head and shoulders leaning sideways. People were
6 around seeing to the victims. I think they were
7 firemen.
8 "I think I took four or five photos of the scene.
9 I have a feeling the flash did not work. If by any
10 chance the photos do come out, they will only be general
11 views of the accident. When I took the photos, I was
12 only five or six metres from the car."
13 Then he gives some details about the camera and the
14 film.
15 "I did not see any jostling or fighting.
16 "I only stayed close to the crashed car for five
17 minutes. Then we were forced back by the police
18 officers who wanted to check our journalistic
19 credentials. We were driven in a police van and later
20 transferred to the First Division of the Judicial
21 Police.
22 "In answer to your question: I did actually follow
23 a convoy consisting of a Mercedes with a Range Rover
24 behind but I am sure this convoy was just a 'front',
25 intended to lead us the wrong way.

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1 "In answer to your question: I did not take anyone
2 on my motorbike. I do not think I was the only person
3 to follow the Range Rover.
4 "I definitely did not come into direct contact with
5 the car in which Dodi and the Princess were travelling.
6 I do not know if other photographers had 'tailed' them.
7 "Personally, I do not think I did anything wrong in
8 that I got to the scene well after the accident.
9 I admit I went up to the crashed car to do my job."
10 And then it finishes:
11 "Gamma's motorcyclist is in custody at the moment.
12 He is wearing a red sweater and I think his name might
13 be Darmon."
14 And it was:
15 "I cannot think of anything else to add."
16 Then he made a statement, got over the page at
17 1st September at 10 o'clock in the morning, the first
18 page does not add anything to what we know, top of the
19 second page he confirms, and it was on your photograph,
20 that his BMW was a white motorbike?
21 A. That is right.
22 Q. If we turn on, another interview on the 1st, 8.45 in
23 the evening. That does not add to what we know so
24 we can move beyond that, please, to a record of
25 questioning with him on 24th October 1997, so that is

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1 the date that we have, looking at the pages at the
2 bottom, we have just the date there at the beginning.
3 If we turn over, please, to 2 of 5, he deals with events
4 earlier on in the evening, if you just go down below
5 the passage that has a line through it.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. He talks about the agency receiving a message that Diana
8 could be in Paris?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. A few lines below, about 7 o'clock he says that he is in
11 the front of the Ritz. Do you see that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. If we turn over the page, take it on quite a distance,
14 page 3 of 5, third paragraph down, he has moved on a lot
15 but we don't need to go over the early part of it again:
16 "At one point, to make a diversion, the Mercedes and
17 the Range Rover made a tour of the square to make
18 a diversion."
19 Is that is the dummy run that he is talking about,
20 isn't it?
21 A. It is, yes.
22 Q. He says:
23 "The cars came back and took up the positions where
24 they were. They were the Mercedes and the 4x4.
25 We suspected at that point that there was something, but

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1 we were not sure."
2 A. That is right.
3 Q. "A few minutes later the Mercedes and the Range Rover
4 left, this time going to the rear of the hotel.
5 We followed, there was Suu, me and Cardinale. I do not
6 know whether there were others behind us. The cars
7 stopped behind the hotel and then left almost
8 immediately. As far as we were concerned, the couple
9 were not inside.
10 "The reason we did not put one of us three behind
11 the hotel to cover the two entrances is because none of
12 us wanted to go there and we were convinced they were
13 going to come out the front way. The two drivers were
14 there with the two cars. When we realised that there
15 was a diversion, we realised it was too late.
16 "Besides, none of the other photographers told us
17 that they had left from the back, as they knew that we
18 were all three from the same agency and that we could
19 have organised ourselves."
20 Then he says:
21 "At no time did I follow the Mercedes which
22 subsequently crashed. I never saw this car except at
23 the scene of the accident. You tell me that according
24 to some witnesses, motorcyclists were seen close to
25 the Mercedes at different times either before or

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1 immediately after the accident. It could not in any
2 case be my motorbike, on which I was alone. I did not
3 at all follow the route indicated as being that of
4 the Mercedes and at no time did I find myself near
5 the Mercedes.
6 "As far as I am concerned, I only followed the other
7 Mercedes and the 4x4 registered in England."
8 That means the vehicles that were involved as it
9 were, the decoy?
10