Hearing transcripts

5 February 2008 - Morning session

1 Tuesday, 5th February 2008
2 (9.30 am)
3 (Jury present)
4 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Good morning. Can you hear us in
5 Paris?
6 SECRETARY TO THE INQUEST: Yes, we can, sir. Thank you.
7 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: And Mr Mules is present, is he?
8 SECRETARY TO THE INQUEST: Yes, he is.
9 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you very much.
10 MR HILLIARD: Can Mr Mules then please take an oath or
11 the affirmation?
12 MR JEAN-CLAUDE MULES (affirmed)
13 (Evidence via videolink, interpreted)
14 Questions from MR HILLIARD
15 MR HILLIARD: Is your name Jean-Claude Mules?
16 A. Yes, it is.
17 Q. I am going to ask you some questions first of all on
18 behalf of the Coroner.
19 Is this right, that you worked for something called
20 the "Brigade Criminelle", or the "Criminal Brigade"
21 I think I am going to call it, between 1979 and 2002?
22 A. Yes, correct.
23 Q. Was that in Paris throughout?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. When you retired in 2002, did you take on any other work

1

1 after that?
2 A. No, but I have worked in cooperation with African police
3 services and I am also a teacher in a school.
4 Q. Can you give us a short idea, what did the Criminal
5 Brigade in Paris do?
6 A. Well, it is in under the management of the police. It
7 works on cases of terrorism, of manslaughter, crime
8 matters.
9 Q. So what does it do, deal with the most serious matters
10 that are going on at any particular time?
11 A. Yes, most certainly, and as a matter of fact,
12 magistrates know that the investigations led by
13 the Criminal Brigade are so with a lot of integrity and
14 honesty and efficiency.
15 Q. Can you help us, what rank did you hold in August of
16 1997?
17 A. I was a commander of police, but I had a special
18 procedural function.
19 Q. Right. Did you go to the Alma Underpass where the crash
20 had happened in the early hours of 31st August of 1997?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Can you remember what sort of time you got there?
23 A. Well, it was about 2/2.15, I cannot remember precisely,
24 but it was very important that I got there because I was
25 asked to be there.

2

1 Q. Where were you when you were asked to go there?
2 A. I was at home because I was not on call. I had
3 appointed somebody to be on call.
4 Q. Who was it who asked you to go to the scene?
5 A. The headquarters of the judicial police, on the special
6 request of the director of the judicial police.
7 Q. What was your role when you got to the scene? What was
8 your job?
9 A. My role consisted in setting the scene of the crash, of
10 taking photographs of it, in writing.
11 MR HILLIARD: We have heard about some pieces of debris that
12 were at the scene that were picked up and retrieved.
13 A. Yes, of course. My role consisted in taking --
14 acknowledging traces and signs that could be used
15 afterwards to try to explain what had happened.
16 Q. We have heard about some pieces of plastic, clear
17 plastic and red plastic, which looked as if they were
18 from light units on cars, that were picked up.
19 A. Yes, I discovered those plastic debris and I asked for
20 them to be placed under seal and I seized them.
21 Q. Do you remember telling Metropolitan Police officers,
22 London police officers, when you saw them, that what had
23 been picked up was fresh debris, and that if debris
24 appeared to be older, you did not pick it up? Do you
25 remember saying that?

3

1 A. Yes, I could not pick up all of the debris that was in
2 the tunnel. It was obvious, considering the tyre marks,
3 that the collision had taken place in a certain place,
4 so it was not necessary to pick up the debris that was
5 elsewhere.
6 Q. Apart from taking debris from particular places that you
7 thought was relevant, were you actually able to say
8 whether debris was old or new or not?
9 A. Yes, but there was no doubt about it. It is very easy
10 to tell which debris is worn out/used because of
11 hundreds of cars that have driven over them and debris
12 that is quite recent.
13 Q. When you were at the scene, did you see the bodies of
14 Henri Paul, Mr Dodi Al Fayed and the Princess of Wales?
15 A. I only saw the bodies of Henri Paul and Dodi Al Fayed.
16 I examined them and I asked right away for them to be
17 sent to be the post-mortem department of the police, out
18 of decency and for hygiene reasons.
19 Q. I want you to have a look, please, at two pages of
20 a report you completed, Mr Mules. We can put this
21 document up on the screen, [INQ0000056]. It is your
22 report -- do you remember -- about the crash.
23 This is an English version of it. All right?
24 Mr Mules, I am just looking -- there is a section in
25 translation that begins, "The victims ... " Do you have

4

1 that all right?
2 THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
3 MR HILLIARD: You refer there to the rear left-hand
4 passenger, Dodi Al Fayed, and the driver, Henri Paul,
5 and it says:
6 "Having died, their still partially clothed bodies
7 lay on the road ..."
8 Then it goes on:
9 "The situation at the scene meant that our initial
10 examination of the bodies was rather delicate, and
11 we confined ourselves to searching them in order to take
12 away any documents, jewellery and valuables in their
13 possession with a view to restoring them."
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. There is then -- do you see -- a list of a list of
16 property. First of all, Mr Dodi Al Fayed, 1,000 francs.
17 THE INTERPRETER: Excuse me, there is a lot of noise in
18 the background. It is very difficult to hear you.
19 MR HILLIARD: There is not much noise here, but we will do
20 our best.
21 Do you see, with reference to Dodi Al Fayed, there
22 is reference to a 1,000 francs?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Then, for Mr Henri Paul, in writing it says
25 "12,565 francs", but in figures it is a bit different;

5

1 it is the other way round. It is "12,560". There is
2 obviously a difference there.
3 A. Yes, it must be a typing error. You know, we had to
4 type this report that is 400 pages long in three days
5 and there might have been typing errors. It is
6 a difference of 5 francs. It is not really relevant, is
7 it?
8 Q. Then there is a reference to a driving licence in
9 the name of Henri Paul; a card for the Ritz Hotel that
10 had his photograph on it. Do you see?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. A Ministry of Justice pass, again with his photograph on
13 it. Was it plain to you -- I do not know -- could you
14 see that the person at the scene of the crash was
15 the person in the photographs?
16 A. Without any doubt.
17 Q. All right. Then we can see the other items, but they
18 are credit cards, calculator, keys and so on.
19 A. Yes.
20 THE INTERPRETER: Right before this paragraph, Mr Mules says
21 "to enumerate and describe".
22 MR HILLIARD: Right. If you go on to the next page,
23 [INQ0000057], it begins at the top:
24 "All of these valuables and documents will be
25 restored subsequently."

6

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. It goes on:
3 "For health reasons and out of a sense of propriety,
4 I arranged for the bodies to be conveyed to
5 the Institute of Forensic Medicine. The more detailed
6 findings from there will be the subject of a separate
7 report. (My initial report and the clothing accompanied
8 the bodies)."
9 A. That was the usual procedure.
10 Q. Is that what you did? Did you arrange for those two
11 bodies to be conveyed to the Institute of Forensic
12 Medicine?
13 A. Yes, under my entire responsibility, under my name and
14 with my signature.
15 Q. We will come on to what happened there in a moment, but
16 I just want to stay with the report. It goes on:
17 "My investigations at the scene having been
18 concluded at 5 o'clock, I was handed by officers of the
19 public safety department of the police various items and
20 valuables which were collated by the first officers on
21 the scene ..."
22 A. We cannot hear you anymore.
23 MR HILLIARD: Can you not? I am reading out the next
24 paragraph that begins "My investigations ..."
25 A. Yes.

7

1 Q. You list some property there: a watch, a bracelet, ring,
2 earring, shoes, belt.
3 A. Still the same thing, yes.
4 Q. Then a "Motorola mobile telephone". Do you see that?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Then it says:
7 "All of this property appears to belong to
8 the Princess of Wales."
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Now, I do not know whether you can remember now,
11 Mr Mules, but the Motorola telephone, on further
12 examination, did that prove to be hers or someone else's
13 or can you not remember?
14 A. No, I cannot remember, but if I wrote that, the fact
15 that it appears to be hers is because we must have
16 distinguished between the belongings that we considered
17 to be hers and those that we considered to be others.
18 Q. Of course. If you turn to the next page, please,
19 [INQ0000058], the third paragraph down says that:
20 "Having been informed of the death of the
21 Princess of Wales, at 4 o'clock, I was instructed by my
22 department to go immediately to the La Pitie-Salpetriere
23 Hospital ... to assist Professor Dominique Lecomte, for
24 observations on the body, the report of which will be
25 contained in a separate statement ...

8

1 "I was also instructed to go to the Institute of
2 Forensic Medicine for the same purpose in respect of
3 the bodies of Dodi Al Fayed and Henri Paul."
4 Do you see that?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Is that what you did?
7 A. It is what I wrote. When you work for the Criminal
8 Brigade, what you write, you do and what you do, you
9 write.
10 Q. I want to ask you, please, about the bodies of
11 Dodi Al Fayed and Henri Paul.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you see them both at the hospital?
14 A. Yes, I saw them both at the Institute of Forensic
15 Medicine.
16 Q. You had last seen them, is this right, at the scene of
17 the crash in the tunnel?
18 A. Yes, absolutely, because I was the one who had them sent
19 to the Institute of Forensic Medicine.
20 Q. Were the bodies of Mr Al Fayed and Henri Paul given
21 identification numbers?
22 A. Yes, but before we go any further, I have to specify
23 that there was a mistake in numbers that I made myself,
24 which I rectified afterwards.
25 Q. Can you help us now with the numbers that each of them

9

1 was actually given? Don't worry about mistakes, but as
2 far as you are concerned, what was the number that was
3 given to Henri Paul?
4 A. I have to find it. Yes, I think that 2146 and 2147 were
5 inversed; 2146 being the number of identification of
6 the body.
7 Q. 2146 and 2147, so those are the two numbers that we need
8 to worry about; is that right?
9 A. I have to check once more but ... 2146 is Mr Henri Paul,
10 but Dodi Al Fayed I do not think I have it. Yes,
11 because Mrs Lecomte, the professor at the Institute of
12 Forensic Medicine, used the number 2146 for Mr Al Fayed
13 and it had been allocated to Mr Henri Paul.
14 Q. I am getting very confused, Mr Mules.
15 Could you just tell me, if there was a tag on
16 the body of Mr Henri Paul -- well, was there a tag on
17 his body?
18 A. Yes, there was, but I made a mistake.
19 Q. Don't worry about the mistake. What was the number on
20 the tag?
21 A. For Mr Paul it was 2147 and for Mr Al Fayed it was
22 2146 -- well, looking at the documents that have been
23 shown to me ten years later.
24 Q. Mr Mules, is it right that photographs were taken of
25 each of them showing the number that was on them?

10

1 A. Yes, absolutely. It is customary, when a body gets to
2 the Institute of Forensic Medicine, for it to be
3 photographed by the police, and on the photograph you
4 see the number of identification.
5 Q. We have heard that there are photographs of Henri Paul
6 with the number 2147, which is what you have told us.
7 A. So you see on the photograph "2147"?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. Then I have made a mistake.
10 Q. You have just told us that Henri Paul's number was 2147,
11 that that is what we would have seen on the tag,
12 Mr Mules.
13 A. Yes, but at that point in time I wrongly said that --
14 well, put in writing in my report that his number of
15 identification was 2146.
16 Q. Mr Mules, I just want to understand, not looking at
17 mistakes you have made in papers, but what the position
18 really was. Mr Mules, you have told us --
19 A. 2147.
20 Q. -- that he had a tag on him that said "2147" and I am
21 just explaining to you that there are photographs that
22 show him with "2147" on him.
23 A. Absolutely. Sorry, we had a misunderstanding. I am
24 sorry.
25 Q. It is all right. You have also told us that you had

11

1 made a mistake about his number, is that right, in your
2 paperwork?
3 A. Yes, but it was rectified right away and there was no
4 consequence of that.
5 Q. But just so that we understand: you originally wrote
6 down, is this right, that Mr Dodi Al Fayed was reference
7 number 2147 and that Mr Henri Paul had been 2146?
8 A. Yes, that is correct.
9 Q. You have explained that you made a mistake in saying
10 that. Is that right?
11 A. Yes, you know, once again, the context in which I was
12 working was a difficult one. You know, when you write
13 something, it is always possible to make a mistake.
14 It is only human. Anyway, I realised that I had made
15 a mistake very quickly and I notified even the
16 authorities of that mistake.
17 Q. If we can just look, please, at [INQ0041592] --
18 THE INTERPRETER: Which corresponds to?
19 MR HILLIARD: I cannot give you the French document. You
20 have it out there, but I cannot remember. If you look,
21 though, we can see in a paragraph there that you
22 have put, towards the top, "Dodi Al Fayed", "reference
23 2147" --
24 A. Yes, it is logical. The mistake was pursued, if you
25 will, because everything had to be consistent.

12

1 Q. If you go over to, for us, the next page, [INQ0041596],
2 there is a reference to Henri Paul with
3 the number "2146". Do you see?
4 Just while we are looking at that, we can see
5 a reference to his height, 1.67 metres, and his weight
6 as 76 kilograms. Do you see that?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So that is the document, Mr Mules -- is this right -- in
9 which you simply have the numbers the wrong way round,
10 you say?
11 A. Yes, exactly.
12 Q. There are, in fact, as I think you know, photographs of
13 each body, Mr Al Fayed and Mr Paul's, with the numbers
14 the different way round, the way that you say in fact
15 they were.
16 A. Exactly.
17 Q. We can take that document away for now.
18 Did a post-mortem examination take place in respect
19 of Mr Henri Paul?
20 A. Yes, there was.
21 Q. Who carried it out?
22 A. It says Professor Lecomte.
23 Q. Who was present when it happened?
24 A. I cannot remember exactly. Obviously I was there
25 because I had to be there to tell the professor about

13

1 the circumstances about the accident. Also there was
2 obviously the photographer of the Judicial Identity
3 Service who was there to take photographs all along
4 the operation.
5 Q. Were you able to identify the body to Professor Lecomte?
6 A. Yes, of course.
7 Q. Were any other post-mortem examinations carried out at
8 the Institute that day, the Sunday?
9 A. No, it was a Sunday.
10 Q. So do I understand you correctly, that you are saying
11 that the only post-mortem examination that was carried
12 out was in respect of Mr Henri Paul?
13 A. Yes. It was.
14 Q. In the course of the examination, were samples taken
15 from him?
16 A. Yes, of course, because according to the protocol
17 relating to post-mortem examination, you have to take
18 the so-called usual samples.
19 Q. You have told us that the only post-mortem examination
20 was in respect of him. Were any samples, as far as you
21 were aware, taken from the bodies of
22 the Princess of Wales and Mr Dodi Al Fayed?
23 A. No, because you proceed to post-mortem examination in
24 relation to the body of the driver following a car
25 crash. The passengers could not be, obviously,

14

1 responsible for the accident.
2 Q. We have seen in the document that you completed that you
3 had recorded Mr Henri Paul's height as 1.67 metres and
4 his weight as 76 kilograms. Do you remember? We just
5 looked at it.
6 A. It is done by the person in charge at the Institute of
7 Forensic Medicine when he or she receives the body. He
8 weighs it, measures it and gives it its identification
9 number.
10 Q. I just want you to look at two parts of the report that
11 Professor Lecomte completed. It is [INQ0001653] and
12 it is page 3, members of the jury, if you have
13 the bundle of toxicology documents that we had. It may
14 be easier to look at it there. That is where it is.
15 Can you see, at the top of the page, she describes
16 the body --
17 THE INTERPRETER: The witness is trying to find
18 the document. We have it for Dodi Al Fayed, but not for
19 Henri Paul.
20 MR HILLIARD: Can you see it on the screen there? Is it
21 coming up for you?
22 THE INTERPRETER: No.
23 MR HILLIARD: Don't worry. What she said in her report is
24 this -- just listen. You might want to make a note of
25 this. She said:

15

1 "The body is that of a middle-aged man bearing
2 a label worded as follows: height 1 metre 72, weight
3 73 kilograms, Institute of Forensic Medicine Paris,
4 number 2147."
5 Then she drew a little chart of the injuries that
6 Mr Henri Paul had. At the bottom of that she wrote
7 the number "2147" and underneath it "76 kg".
8 A. Maybe she made a mistake when she transcribed the weight
9 that was on the label.
10 Q. Right. I just want to know, can you shed any light
11 other than the possibility that she has made a mistake
12 for those discrepancies, those differences of heights
13 and weights?
14 A. No, I have no explanation. Maybe you should ask her.
15 Q. I think we may not be hearing from her, you see,
16 Mr Mules, so we have to ask you.
17 A. Yes, I know because she is concerned by two cases still
18 in France, but maybe she just made a mistake; she did
19 not read properly what was on the label. You know,
20 it is a mistake of a few kilos or a few centimetres.
21 Q. Right. Now, in the course of the examination, you told
22 us that samples were taken.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. She took the samples, is that right?
25 A. Yes, of course. You should not forget that she is an

16

1 expert, sworn with the Court of Appeal, so she is
2 allowed/enabled to take blood samples and to put them on
3 the seal.
4 Q. Let's take blood for example. Once the sample of blood
5 is taken from the body, can you help us with
6 the procedure? What happens to the sample? What sort
7 of container is it put in? How is it labelled? Where
8 is it kept? Help us with the procedure that would be
9 followed with an important item like that.
10 A. Before you start, before the physician takes
11 the samples, he has at his disposal a few little bottles
12 with reference numbers. So you take the blood from
13 different places, from the heart, and the practitioner
14 puts the cover onto those bottles. It is a system that
15 is auto-blocking, self-blocking. You cannot open it
16 anymore afterwards.
17 Then the samples are put in a fridge for further
18 examinations by biologists or toxicologists to be
19 undertaken; as a matter of fact, in that hospital case,
20 the expert being Mrs Lecomte.
21 Q. Can you help me, when does the label go on the sample
22 bottle? Is the sample bottle there with a label already
23 on it and the expert puts the particular sample in that
24 particular bottle or does the expert put it in an empty
25 bottle and then somebody else labels the bottle? Do you

17

1 understand?
2 A. No, rather the expert has several containers, but
3 the bottles already are prelabelled, but all of the
4 labels are on each of the bottles.
5 Q. Can you remember, is that what happened here, that there
6 were prelabelled bottles into which Professor Lecomte
7 put samples and specimens as she took them?
8 A. Yes, she followed the normal protocol. It is very
9 strict. You have to take that many samples of blood and
10 then you have to retrieve the specific organs, weigh
11 them, et cetera, for biological and toxicological
12 examinations. So, yes, she followed the procedure.
13 Q. It is obviously an awfully long time ago, Mr Mules, but
14 can you remember now where she took blood from or not?
15 A. No, I cannot remember exactly where she took blood from.
16 It depended on what was needed. She could have taken
17 blood from the heart, from the thorax. I do not
18 remember.
19 Q. In particular -- I just want to ask you this -- have you
20 any recollection of whether at any time she took any
21 blood from the area of the neck? Can you remember that
22 or not?
23 A. No, I would lie if I said "yes". I do not remember.
24 Q. In this particular case, were you present to see what
25 happened to the sample bottles once they had had samples

18

1 put in them?
2 A. No, because I had plenty of administrative work to do.
3 I was called towards the end of the post-mortem
4 examination by the Public Prosecutor and I had to go to
5 her office to get all the documents necessary for
6 the repatriation of the bodies of Dodi Al Fayed and
7 Diana, Princess of Wales.
8 Q. Where should the samples have gone? What should have
9 happened to them?
10 A. Well, they are put in a fridge to preserve them and some
11 are allocated to the different experts, to Mr Ricordel
12 and to Mr Pepin.
13 Q. I just want to put up on the screen, please,
14 [INQ0042920].
15 I am just not clear whether you can see what we are
16 looking at or not, Mr Mules. Can you tell me if you can
17 see anything at all?
18 A. It is on the screen, but it is hard to see.
19 Q. That is all right. Would it help if you got up from
20 your chair and just went round?
21 THE INTERPRETER: Mr Mules is right in front of the screen
22 now.
23 MR HILLIARD: All right. I am just going to ask that we go
24 on. If you stay there. We can look at [INQ0042921],
25 [INQ0042922], [INQ0042923], [INQ0042924] and

19

1 [INQ0042925].
2 Now, if you want to take your chair again, Mr Mules.
3 We all appreciate it is a long time ago and you are
4 looking there at photographs, Mr Mules, but doing
5 the best you can to remember, how do those photographs
6 of samples compare with the bottles into which you say
7 samples were put on 31st August 1997?
8 A. Well first of all, looking at these photographs, it is
9 confirmation of what I said earlier; that is, that those
10 little bottles were prelabelled with labels that are
11 printed with the reference number. We could read on
12 some bottles the kind of sample that the bottle is
13 supposed to hold, that is liver, heart, blood,
14 et cetera. I could not tell you how many samples
15 exactly and what kind of samples are supposed to have
16 been taken, but it seems to be consistent.
17 Q. What I am getting at is: do those look like the sort of
18 bottles and the sort of labels that were on the bottles
19 when the samples were taken from Henri Paul?
20 A. Well, they don't look like them; they are those bottles.
21 Q. Well, you just mentioned the question, Mr Mules, of how
22 many samples were taken. Again, I want to show you two
23 documents. As far as we know, they were not completed
24 by you. Again, you would be right in saying that
25 the obvious person to ask is Professor Lecomte, but you

20

1 understand the problem?
2 A. I perfectly understand the problem. I will try my best
3 to try to refresh my memory to try to help you.
4 Q. It is just this, Mr Mules: if we look at [INQ0001663],
5 if you just look down the list at the number of samples,
6 can you see "blood, 5"; "organs, 4"; "urine, 1"; "bile",
7 "vitreous humour", "gastric contents, 1", "hair, 1"?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Then, if you just look at [INQ0042910], "blood, 5".
10 Now, can you see "intestines, 5 plus 5"; urine is not
11 simply 1, but 1 plus 1; stomach contents is not simply 1
12 but 1 plus 1; hair is not simply 1, but 1 plus 3.
13 Now, I do not know -- we can get rid of those
14 documents for the moment -- do you actually now have any
15 recollection at all of how many samples were taken?
16 A. Well, I was heard about one and a half years ago with
17 Professor Lecomte and Mr Pepin and I have to say that
18 then I had to say I did not know the number of samples
19 that were supposed to be taken.
20 But they explained, themselves, concerning
21 the number of samples that had been taken and the fact
22 of the matter was that they thought that maybe an
23 examination and then a second or a third examination
24 would be necessary in that particular case. That is why
25 maybe they decided to take further samples.

21

1 Q. All right. Thank you. I am grateful. It does not
2 quite work here because of the dates, but you have no
3 recollection yourself of how many samples were taken?
4 A. No, no. I could not remember.
5 Q. The last topic, Mr Mules, that I want to deal with with
6 you is somebody called James Andanson.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. I wonder if we can have, please, [INQ0009113] on the
9 screen.
10 Now, Mr Mules, this is a document -- a record, you
11 see -- of 22nd January 1998. Chief Superintendent
12 Dyevre, if I pronounce his name right -- did you know
13 him?
14 A. Yes, he was head of my section. He was a commissioner
15 of police and the head of my section.
16 Q. It says that on 22nd January 1998 he was notified by the
17 "... British liaison officer posted to Paris but
18 currently in London that an anonymous piece of
19 information was circulating that ... Jean-Pierre
20 Andanson, known as 'James', a journalist and
21 photographer, was the owner of a white Fiat Uno
22 [registration given] the rear left of which showed
23 traces of an impact."
24 Do you see that?
25 A. Yes.

22

1 Q. So if this is right, so that we understand the context
2 of it, this is a British police officer alerting
3 the French to information about Mr Andanson, isn't it?
4 It is the British police actually telling the French
5 police about him, if this is right? Yes?
6 A. Yes, yes, that is right. I do not see where you want to
7 get to, but that is right.
8 Q. You then had some contact with Mr Andanson, is that
9 right?
10 A. Well, it was taken seriously as a matter of fact, this
11 anonymous information, but it wasn't me. It was,
12 I think, somebody you heard yesterday, Mr Gigou, who
13 went to meet with Mr Andanson and also experts were sent
14 out to look at the traces of paint on the car.
15 Q. If we can have for us please [INQ00046726 - read out in court]. You have,
16 I am told, the French version of this. For you I think
17 it has "D4549" on it.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. If we just have a look at this document, it says -- can
20 you see, if you go a little way down:
21 "On 12th February 1998 at 3.15 pm,
22 I Jean-Claude Mules, major of police, officer of the
23 judicial police, attached to the Criminal Investigation
24 Department of Paris ... note that there appears,
25 summoned by me: Mr Jean-Pierre Andanson, known as

23

1 'James' ..."
2 Do you see that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. I just want to understand, does this mean that you saw
5 him on 12th February 1998 at quarter past three in
6 the afternoon?
7 A. Yes, I met him in person and, you know, one has to write
8 down the time at which somebody comes and when somebody
9 leaves.
10 Q. Whereabouts did you see him?
11 A. He was summoned at the Criminal Brigade, and as I was
12 the person in charge of the procedural matters, I was
13 the one who acknowledged his presence and who
14 acknowledged his hearing in the form that you have in
15 front of you.
16 Q. So he came to see you in Paris?
17 A. Yes, absolutely.
18 Q. I am just going to read out what the statement says,
19 Mr Mules. You can follow in the French and perhaps our
20 interpreter will too, to make sure that there is nothing
21 wrong.
22 It says this, according to the translation anyway:
23 "Mr Jean-Pierre Andanson, known as 'James', born
24 30.03.1946 in Clermont-Ferrand [and the district code is
25 given] (63), freelance photographer-journalist, living

24

1 at Manoir, Lignieres, 18160."
2 The telephone number is given, the fax number,
3 the mobile number. Then there are various formal parts
4 that appear at the beginning.
5 Then he says:
6 "I am appearing voluntarily following a summons from
7 the gendarmerie at Lignieres. I must tell you that
8 I reported on Princess Lady Di's holiday in St Tropez on
9 behalf of the Sygma agency.
10 "On Saturday 30th August 1997 I was at Le Manoir in
11 the company ..."
12 You should have a French version there that Mr Mules
13 can follow in. Have you got one or not?
14 THE INTERPRETER: Yes, yes.
15 MR HILLIARD: You can read it to him or I suppose he can
16 read it to himself.
17 "On Saturday 30th August 1997 I was at Le Manoir in
18 the company of my wife and my daughter, Kimberley.
19 Before leaving at 4 o'clock in the morning by car, to
20 get to Orly and catch a plane at 7.20 am for Corsica
21 (Bonfacio), I went to bed at 10.30 pm. I listened to
22 the news on Europe No 1, as every day.
23 "I took my vehicle at about 3.45 am and took
24 the motorway at Bourges, exit number 7. There I took my
25 ticket, which I paid for at the Survilliers tollgate

25

1 with my credit card ..." , and there is the number and
2 the expiry date.
3 MR CROXFORD: If it helps, this is something which your
4 counsel knows about. There is some significance in
5 the numbers. It is really the last three digits. "300"
6 has been blocked out on this copy. There is, in fact,
7 a better copy which has not been redacted to which I may
8 refer presently, but this is credit card "300".
9 MR HILLIARD: I do not imagine there is any secret about it
10 in any event now.
11 "... expiring 06/1999. It came to 102 francs.
12 I took my plane to Bonifacio where I rented a Hertz
13 vehicle to go to the home of Gilbert Becaud, with whom
14 I had a work appointment at 11.00 am. I woke him up and
15 told him of the death of Diana. That is my timetable
16 for the days in question.
17 "As to the Fiat vehicle you say I owned, I was in
18 fact the owner of a white Fiat Uno model 60 diesel.
19 I had acquired it on a lease from M Langlois, the BMW
20 dealer in Chateauroux, his wife being herself a Fiat
21 dealer 400 metres from his garage. I bought out
22 the lease, which explains the fact that a year and
23 a half elapsed between the date first registered, on
24 25.03.1988, and the declared date of acquisition in my
25 name on 13.10.1989.

26

1 "Having restarted my work as
2 a photographer-journalist at the Sygma agency [and he
3 gives the Paris address], I needed a suitable vehicle to
4 take up my work again. I used this car a lot and I did
5 372,000 kilometres and stopped using it in 1995,
6 the year after which I stopped paying my insurance.
7 I think I remember that at that time, having made
8 a success of my career, I passed to the BMW stage.
9 I handed my Fiat over to my mother-in-law, who insured
10 it for another year. Afterwards this vehicle remained
11 parked opposite my Charolais shed and, in October 1997,
12 wanting to buy a vehicle for our heir, my son, the Fiat
13 dealers (Mrs Langlois) offered to take our Fiat Uno for
14 5,000 francs as it stood.
15 "The Fiat Punto at that time was worth 47,000 francs
16 secondhand. We bought it for 42,000 francs, the Fiat
17 Uno thus put 'on the scrap heap' ... [something
18 illegible and asking about the battery] and no one used
19 it."
20 So, Mr Mules, you took that statement from him and,
21 in addition, a further one. Is this right?
22 It is [INQ0046728 - read out in court]. If you just turn over the page
23 from the last one you were looking at, this is also
24 dated 12th February. It says "Continuation one", and
25 we need the second half:

27

1 "To my knowledge that vehicle must still be at
2 Mrs Langlois', the Fiat dealers at Chateauroux, Route
3 Nationale 20, if it has not been sold in the meantime.
4 As for the accidents which I could have had, I remember
5 someone hitting me at a roundabout before 1995. I will
6 certainly keep at your disposal all the repair and paint
7 bills relating to that vehicle. I have nothing else to
8 say, except that I am very sorry about my behaviour to
9 the police following the summons which was addressed to
10 me. Thinking at first that it was a joke in poor taste,
11 I spoke wrongly to Police Lieutenant Eric Gigou and I am
12 sincerely sorry. I intend to apologise to him
13 personally and I reiterate my confidence in the French
14 police.
15 "I am at your disposal to collect the certificates
16 as to my journey and expenses sheet for 30-31.08.1997."
17 Yes?
18 Now, Mr Mules, just two things: first of all, what
19 was he apologising for as far as Mr Gigou was concerned?
20 A. Well, the reason why I summoned Mr Andanson to Paris was
21 to try to calm him down because he seemed to have
22 the impression that he was all the laws.
23 Q. What does that mean, that he was "all the laws"?
24 A. Well, the thing is he had connections in the political
25 world and he thought -- he was very arrogant and he

28

1 thought that law did not apply to him.
2 Q. Above the law?
3 THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
4 A. I have to specify the fact that Mr Andanson did not have
5 a good reputation in his milieu with colleagues of his
6 and some people were envious of him and maybe one of his
7 colleagues told on him.
8 Q. In those statements, he had given you an account of his
9 movements, hadn't he, in particular where he was on
10 30th/31st August 1997?
11 A. Yes, and everything could be checked by the
12 investigators of the group.
13 Q. He told you something about his car and when he had sold
14 it?
15 A. Yes, he justified everything that we asked him to
16 justify, and that was also following the investigation
17 conducted by Mr Gigou at the home of Mr Andanson.
18 Q. Mr Andanson had said that he was at your disposal to
19 collect documents about his journey, his expenses sheet
20 and so on?
21 A. Yes, and it must have been done at a later stage because
22 the head police and the judge were informed of that
23 matter, and so I am sure he was asked to remit the
24 documents in question.
25 Q. In due course, you had access to -- is this right --

29

1 road toll tickets, plane tickets, his expenses sheet,
2 car rental details and so on?
3 A. Yes, you see, in the document marked "D4601", all of the
4 verifications that have been made concerning the car and
5 his timetable, et cetera.
6 Q. Lastly, because we are probably about to have our break,
7 he also gave you a diary. Do you remember?
8 A. I do not remember that.
9 MR HILLIARD: All right. We are probably at the limit.
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We are indeed.
11 MR HILLIARD: It is just the documents to go. I will ask
12 Mr Croxford. I may be able to take it quite shortly.
13 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Mules, we break off now in the
14 morning for a short time. So we will have a break now
15 and then we will continue and there will be some more
16 questions.
17 THE INTERPRETER: Thank you.
18 (11.05 am)
19 (A short break)
20 (11.20 am)
21 (Jury present)
22 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Can you hear us again? We are
23 ready to start. Can you hear us in Paris?
24 SECRETARY TO THE INQUEST: Yes, we can hear you, sir. Thank
25 you.

30

1 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you.
2 MR HILLIARD: Sir, we are only going to deal with it very
3 quickly, but the toll ticket question. We have a rough
4 map to give us an idea.
5 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you (Handed).
6 MR HILLIARD: I do not know if we can put this under
7 the camera so that you can see it, Mr Mules. I know you
8 will be very familiar with where everything is. Now,
9 where the little arrow is, in about the middle there,
10 that is trying to show Lignieres. You see at the top,
11 "Address, Lignieres, France". That is where
12 Mr Andanson's house was, the Manoir.
13 Can you see above it and to the right, Bourges is
14 marked, and there is a road that appears to run between
15 Bourges and Vierzon, which is just up the plan a bit.
16 Then can you see that the road goes north in
17 the direction of Paris, doesn't it?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. If you can just look, please, at [INQ0009078], and
20 we heard yesterday, Mr Mules, so this is just a summary,
21 about three toll road payments made; three toll road
22 payments made with a card that ended in "1300". All
23 right? That was Mr Andanson's card.
24 It showed that on 30th August -- the first two on
25 this page deal with 30th August. If we look at

31

1 the middle of the page first -- we heard about this
2 yesterday -- at 4.55 in the morning on the 30th,
3 the entry point, which we can see three up from
4 the bottom in the middle section, was Bourges.
5 The exit, if we go up four more, was Vierzon East. So
6 onto the toll road at Bourges, off at Vierzon East and
7 that is leaving at 4.55 in the morning on the 30th.
8 There is then a 13-minute gap because we can see
9 that the vehicle has already been back on the toll road
10 and has come off at Bourges, if you look at the top one,
11 at 5.08 in the morning on 30th August. So it appears to
12 have been going north, then south, coming off at Bourges
13 at 5.08 in the morning.
14 Then, on 31st August in the early hours of the
15 morning -- this is the last one on this page -- it has
16 a time of 5.58 in the morning, coming off. The exit is
17 something called La Folie-B, but at Yvelines in Paris
18 which -- will you take it from me -- is about 30 miles
19 from Orly Airport. So coming off there at 5.48, having
20 come on at Bourges again, we can see.
21 We saw yesterday, Mr Mules, that the plane ticket to
22 Corsica was bought at 6.23 in the morning on 31st August
23 but with his wife's credit card, and the ticket that he
24 has bought is a ticket in his name to Corsica, and his
25 wife's credit card was used again in Corsica to buy

32

1 the ticket back in his name.
2 We looked yesterday at hire car documents, his
3 expense sheets and so on. Were you aware of the results
4 of all of those inquiries that have I just summarised to
5 you, Mr Mules?
6 A. Not at that time, but I would like to recall you what
7 was my role. I was in charge of creating a report,
8 a file, made by all the acts and actions done by
9 the officers. There were more than 2,994 pages of
10 statements in this investigation. I could not see
11 everything. What I did is I checked that all these
12 pages were in compliance with what has been already
13 controlled and checked four to five times by the various
14 people involved in this investigation and my role was to
15 structure the action and inquiries.
16 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We have to redial to get back
17 the current link.
18 MR HILLIARD: We are just missing a picture. We have sound
19 and no picture, so we are just going to dial again.
20 (Pause)
21 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We are back again. Can you see
22 us?
23 THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
24 MR HILLIARD: There we are. All right.
25 I just want to look please, lastly, at the diary

33

1 with you, Mr Mules. All right?
2 If we look, please, at [INQ0009103], can you see --
3 it has been translated, but the dates run across
4 the top. Can you see? They are for August --
5 THE INTERPRETER: We don't have the documents.
6 MR HILLIARD: We will just put it on the --
7 THE INTERPRETER: Thank you.
8 MR HILLIARD: Can you see the dates across the top?
9 SECRETARY TO THE INQUEST: Excuse me. We are getting echo
10 back from you. It is very difficult to hear you at this
11 end.
12 MR HILLIARD: Can you see that the first date, Monday
13 25th August, do you see "Lady Di" underneath?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Then if you went down right to the bottom of that entry,
16 you will see "Dinner, Portofino, sleep on boat".
17 If you just go to the top of the next one, Tuesday
18 the 26th, can you see again "Lady Di"? Down the bottom
19 of that page, can you see "1900", if that is what
20 it was, "Return Portofino, dinner all together, return
21 St Tropez 4 o'clock in the morning".
22 If you just go across to the next one, which is
23 the Wednesday, the 27th, right at the bottom -- we have
24 heard his house was called the "Manoir". This appears
25 to be suggesting that he had dinner at his house in

34

1 the evening, doesn't it?
2 A. I am not aware of that. These are elements on which
3 I did not work, so you are just making me aware of that,
4 but I did not know before.
5 Q. If you go on to the Thursday, the next day, the 28th,
6 that also says "Dinner, Manoir" at the bottom, as does
7 Friday the 29th at the bottom. If you look at Saturday
8 the 30th, can you see it begins "Report on Lady Di"?
9 We are there now. Did you see the report that he
10 did for the Sygma agency?
11 A. What type of report, please?
12 Q. It was a report in which he was saying that he did not
13 think that Sygma had dealt with the Princess of Wales'
14 holiday in the South of France very well as far as
15 taking pictures was concerned. Does that jog your
16 memory or not?
17 A. Not at all. No, but I am amazed because this is only
18 normal discussions that we had together, but he told me
19 that he had negotiated with the Princess of Wales some
20 pictures so that then, afterwards, she would remain not
21 bothered by him and by other photographers.
22 Q. Then, if we go down to the bottom of this entry for
23 the 30th, it says at least, "Dinner at the Manoir in
24 the evening".
25 Then, if you go to Sunday the 31st, there is

35

1 reference, do you see, to leaving at 4 am and to Orly,
2 the airport.
3 Then the only other thing I want to ask you about is
4 this: if we look at [INQ0009105], can you see, Saturday
5 the 6th, that there is a note, "Lunch at the Manoir", do
6 you see if you go down, and then "Leave for Libourne";
7 do you see?
8 Libourne, do you know, is it in the Bordeaux area,
9 Mr Mules?
10 A. Yes, Libourne is close to Bordeaux, yes.
11 Q. If you look for Sunday the 7th, at the top, do you see
12 there is a reference to "harvest" and somewhere called
13 Lepin, which I think is an estate in Bordeaux; half past
14 8 in the morning. Then lunch at somewhere that is in
15 Bordeaux. Can you still hear us? No. (Pause)
16 Lastly, just this, Mr Mules: do you remember that
17 James Andanson's son, when asked about his father's
18 movements the weekend of 30th/31st August, had mentioned
19 him being in Bordeaux for the harvest, the grape
20 harvest. Do you remember?
21 A. No, I do not have any knowledge about that.
22 Q. All right. But at all events, there were certainly
23 references to the harvest in Bordeaux, but the week
24 later, which we have just looked at, haven't we?
25 A. Probably, but as I do not have any knowledge, I will not

36

1 give any comments on that.
2 MR HILLIARD: We understand that. All right. Thank you
3 very much indeed.
4 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes, Mr Mansfield.
5 SECRETARY TO THE INQUEST: The sound link is very poor now.
6 There is a great deal of interference. It is not very
7 clear at all.
8 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We will see what we can do.
9 SECRETARY TO THE INQUEST: Thank you.
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We are going to try something
11 else to get a better line, but can you make sure for the
12 meantime that the monitor volume is turned down, please,
13 while we try this?
14 We have tried something, or at least the technical
15 experts have. Is that better now? Can you hear us
16 without the echo?
17 THE INTERPRETER: It seems that we don't have the echo now.
18 It is much better.
19 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you.
20 Yes, Mr Mansfield?
21 THE INTERPRETER: Sorry, sir, it was just a few seconds.
22 Now we have the echo again. If we could just try to see
23 if it is feasible?
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We are just trying to see what
25 the technical people can do.

37

1 THE INTERPRETER: Do you have an echo yourself or is it okay
2 for you when you are listening to us?
3 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We can hear you perfectly well.
4 THE INTERPRETER: It seems that we can too now.
5 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: We will continue then and hope
6 for the best.
7 Mr Mansfield, would you like another try?
8 MR MANSFIELD: Sir, may I say that we have divided up topics
9 and I adopt the ones that come later.
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes.
11 Questions from MR MANSFIELD
12 MR MANSFIELD: Good morning. My name is Michael Mansfield.
13 I represent Mohamed Al Fayed and I have a few questions
14 for you.
15 Could we have first of all -- I am sorry about
16 the detail. If you cannot help, then I will leave it,
17 but there are some detailed questions. Could we have
18 [INQ0000057]?
19 This is part of a report that you made. I just want
20 to ask you about one thing relating to the property that
21 appears to belong to the Princess of Wales; in
22 particular, the Motorola mobile phone.
23 The question is this: can you help as to where that
24 phone was found?
25 A. I cannot tell you because I have no detail about

38

1 the location of these properties initially because they
2 had been given to me by the police officers who were
3 first of all being on the scene.
4 Q. Well, I will pass to another topic.
5 Could we have on screen please -- we had them
6 yesterday -- [D969]? This document was found on
7 3rd September by your officers, amongst other documents,
8 spread out on a living room table at Henri Paul's
9 address.
10 Can you help: first of all, do you remember seeing
11 this before?
12 A. No, not at all. No, it has been certainly been appended
13 to the search that was made on 3rd September, but as
14 I have already told you, I could not have knowledge of
15 all the items and all the documents that were appended
16 to the major files. I could only do a cross-reading.
17 Q. I appreciate that. We are not having all the officers
18 being called, so I have to ask you.
19 The financial transactions listed there in that
20 column, do you know whether they were investigated?
21 A. Probably, but it seems from the document you are showing
22 me that these amounts seem to be amounts being present
23 on banking accounts, so it seems to be a list made by
24 Henri Paul to have an assessment of all the values he
25 had.

39

1 Q. Yes, I appreciate that. The question is: were these
2 figures investigated by your squad?
3 A. I cannot confirm it. Probably it has been done.
4 Q. Who would have done it?
5 A. Police officers from the group, but I do not have any
6 recollection now, but certainly, at that time, reports
7 had been drafted about that.
8 Q. The question is: did you ascertain where these monies
9 came from?
10 A. Probably it has been done when all the checkings were
11 made at that time.
12 Q. Well, "probably"? What is the answer to the question as
13 to where did they come from?
14 A. Certainly I do not have -- I do not know.
15 Q. Could we have D973, please? Sorry, it is another
16 document.
17 I will ask the question without the document. With
18 this list were other documents, written by Henri Paul,
19 on the same living room table with names and addresses
20 and telephone numbers.
21 A. I do not know.
22 Q. Well, I am not going to waste time asking you about them
23 if you don't know.
24 I want to ask you about Henri Paul's movements
25 between 7 o'clock in the evening of the 30th and

40

1 10 o'clock on the evening of the 30th.
2 A. Same thing as for your other questions; I did not deal
3 directly with that. It was members of my group.
4 Q. Well, I appreciate, but I just want to see if you can
5 help.
6 A. I will try to help you, but I cannot invent anything
7 that I have no knowledge about. So I would much prefer
8 to say "I do not know" rather than saying what I cannot
9 know.
10 Q. I don't want to ask you questions about which you know
11 nothing, but I am going to preface it in this way:
12 Henri Paul received a telephone call to go back to
13 the Ritz at 10 o'clock in the evening and he was back in
14 the Ritz within six minutes. Did you know that?
15 A. I think I remember. I have heard about that because we
16 were speaking together, we were sharing information
17 together, but there is no written document about that.
18 Q. The implication is that at least at that stage he is
19 very close to the vicinity of the Ritz.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Is it right that, over many months, your squad made
22 inquiries in the neighbourhood of the Ritz with his
23 friends that he usually saw, neighbours that he had to
24 his apartment, local bars, local restaurants, and nobody
25 appears to have spent any time with him between 7 and

41

1 10? Is that a reasonable conclusion?
2 A. It is both a simple and complex question. I do not
3 remember exactly what has been done and the procedure,
4 but the regular procedure in that type of case is to
5 have a deep inquiry on the neighbourhood, to profile
6 the person and the schedule of the person, and if it has
7 been done, it is certainly somewhere in a report.
8 Q. Did you ever consider at any stage, when looking into
9 where Henri Paul was during those three hours, that he
10 might have had a meeting in a vehicle?
11 A. I do not understand your question and what you mean.
12 Q. I make it very clear: if he cannot be found in any
13 address, bar, restaurant or with any friend, did it
14 occur to you at any time, since this was a very public
15 investigation, that perhaps he was in a vehicle?
16 A. During three hours?
17 Q. No, not during three hours, but for some of the time.
18 A. No, I do not think.
19 Q. I want to ask you about the night of the crash, please.
20 Do you remember that that night there were four very
21 important eye witnesses who became part of the
22 garde a vue that night, four?
23 A. I do not have any recollection now. I remember that
24 there were many people being eye witnesses which I kept
25 as the paparazzi, but I do not have any actual

42

1 recollection now.
2 MR MANSFIELD: Sir, it may assist yourself and the jury,
3 the witnesses -- at least three of the four -- are named
4 in the index and they are at divider 11, 12 and 13 of
5 tab number 5.
6 We in London have diagrams drawn by the four
7 witnesses I am mentioning, indicating where they were
8 and what they saw. Do you understand?
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. The first two witnesses were in the tunnel in a vehicle
11 going in the opposite direction to the Mercedes. Their
12 names were Benoit Boura and Mlle Gaelle L'Hostis. I am
13 going to summarise the basic point: both these witnesses
14 gave statements very early in your inquiry at about
15 20 past 2 in the morning.
16 They said to police officers that they had seen
17 the crash and that, just before the crash, they had both
18 seen, first of all, a smaller dark car in front of the
19 Mercedes, blocking its progress, and a powerful
20 motorcycle right behind it. These two vehicles,
21 the dark car and the motorcycle, drove off after
22 the crash. The questions are these: first of all, did
23 you ever identify the dark car in front of the Mercedes,
24 blocking its progress?
25 A. Not according to my knowledge.

43

1 Q. It follows, therefore, that you did not identify the
2 driver of that vehicle?
3 A. Not at all.
4 Q. Did you ever identify the powerful motorcycle behind
5 the car?
6 A. Not as far as I know.
7 Q. So it also follows that you have never identified
8 the rider on the motorcycle?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Then I want to --
11 A. He would have been one of the main witnesses.
12 Q. Yes, I agree. Would the jury be kind enough -- I am
13 sorry, you don't have it at your end -- to turn back to
14 divider 11 for the other witness?
15 The other two witnesses seen very early in
16 the inquiry that night were two pedestrians. They were
17 together. One was called Olivier Partouche -- sir, he
18 is at tab 5, divider 11 -- and the other one was
19 a Mr Gooroovadoo.
20 Mr Partouche has given evidence, sir, but the other
21 one has not.
22 Now, these two were pedestrians above the tunnel and
23 beyond. They also drew diagrams of what they could see
24 and where they were. In particular, in their two cases,
25 they saw the Mercedes, at the point that it was

44

1 approaching the tunnel, closely pursued by at least one
2 motorcycle. Have you ever identified who was on the
3 motorcycle or motorcycles as the Mercedes went into
4 the tunnel?
5 A. I assume these motorbikes were the motorbikes of
6 the paparazzi who were pursuing the Mercedes since
7 the Ritz Hotel.
8 Q. Why do you assume that?
9 A. It seems logical. Everybody knows that the Mercedes
10 could not manage not to have any photographer, any
11 paparazzi, behind it, and so they grouped -- all the
12 paparazzis grouped together because news in this
13 profession spreads quite quickly and they were all
14 behind the Mercedes.
15 Q. Which of the paparazzi that you interviewed were
16 prepared to admit that they were that close to the
17 Mercedes as it went into the tunnel?
18 A. I do not remember now, but it certainly has been done
19 and all the questions have been asked, and it has been
20 done by the police officers from the Brigade Criminelle
21 but also from the magistrate.
22 Q. Yes. Well may I summarise what your squad discovered?
23 No paparazzi so far -- they have not given evidence
24 here -- admits being that close to the Mercedes. They
25 all say they were much further back, near the previous

45

1 tunnel. Do you understand?
2 A. They said that and they said it also to the magistrate,
3 but as we had some pictures being taken and that
4 we could see in the press, taken from the front of the
5 Mercedes, it means that the motorbikes certainly went by
6 the car and took their picture.
7 Q. Which photographs were taken at the front of the car in
8 the tunnel, as it was moving along?
9 A. It is a picture which had been taken a few moments
10 before the Mercedes entered the tunnel, where you can
11 clearly see the driver, Henri Paul, Mr Trevor Jones,
12 the bodyguard, and the passengers behind.
13 Q. Are you aware that, if it is the same photograph, that
14 photograph was taken at the rear of the Ritz before
15 the car ever set off? Did you know that?
16 A. I do not know. I ignore it. What I know is that these
17 pictures have been seized from the paparazzi, so if you
18 tell me so, I admit it.
19 Q. If that is right -- do you follow -- no paparazzi is
20 admitting being close to the Mercedes as it entered
21 the tunnel or taking photographs of the Mercedes in
22 the tunnel as it was moving.
23 A. Paparazzi have their own interests to defend. They say
24 whatever they want to say.
25 I do not know by the way if they are -- I mean, if

46

1 they have been listened to in this inquest because maybe
2 that would have been interesting for them, to explain
3 what they knew.
4 Q. Would you be prepared to ask if they would come?
5 A. I will not be asked any longer. This case dates back
6 from ten years ago. It has been judged already. I am
7 here to help, but I am here to try to find the truth.
8 I know the truth and I do not want to come back.
9 Q. I am not asking you to come back. I am asking whether
10 you would be prepared to help persuade the paparazzi to
11 give evidence to this inquest.
12 A. No I do not want to do that.
13 Q. My final question is: did you ever consider that one or
14 more of the motorcycles that witnesses saw may not have
15 belonged to paparazzi?
16 A. No.
17 MR MANSFIELD: Thank you.
18 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Keen?
19 Questions from MR KEEN
20 MR KEEN: Good morning, Mr Mules. My name is Richard Keen
21 and I appear on behalf of the parents of the late
22 Henri Paul.
23 I want to ask you just a few questions about
24 31st August 1997 and the autopsies at IML. Do
25 I understand, Mr Mules, that you had previous experience

47

1 of attending autopsies at IML in the course of your
2 duties in the Brigade Criminelle?
3 A. I was even an expert of post-mortem examinations because
4 I did more than 500 during all my job, my career.
5 Q. So you are familiar with the protocols that should be
6 followed at IML during an autopsy. Is that right?
7 A. Yes, that is right.
8 Q. You attended at about 8 am on 31st August 1997 when
9 Professor Lecomte was performing an autopsy at IML?
10 A. Professor Lecomte ignored that I had been appointed to
11 be there at the IML, and she even called
12 the headquarters to ask for me being present and
13 assisting her because we had been working for so many
14 years together that she wanted me to assist her.
15 Q. I think because of other urgent duties that you had that
16 day, you were actually called away before the conclusion
17 of the autopsy; is that right?
18 A. The post mortem, the autopsy, had been totally
19 completed. The only operations which had to remain were
20 to -- I do not want to be too rude -- but were for the
21 bodies to become visible.
22 Q. There is a process at IML of attaching numbered labels
23 to bodies, is there not?
24 A. Yes, of course. There is what we call somebody being
25 a "handler", people handling the bodies, the dead bodies

48

1 arriving, and he is in charge of preparing the bodies,
2 undressing them, weighing them and putting, at the very
3 end, all these cord bracelets with the reference
4 numbers.
5 Q. Once the label with the reference number is attached to
6 the body, it remains there while the body is at IML. Is
7 that correct?
8 A. Yes, the tags, the labels remain. There are two of
9 them, both on the wrist and on the ankle. On this tag
10 you have the name of the person, the first name,
11 the year -- it always starts with the year; 1997 for
12 this instance -- plus the reference number and then
13 the weight and the size.
14 Q. When you say "size", you mean the height?
15 A. Yes, the height.
16 Q. One of the oddities that we have here, Mr Mules, is that
17 the weight and height which you recorded from the label
18 for the body undergoing the autopsy was a weight of
19 76 kilograms and a height of 176 centimetres, while
20 the weight and the height which Professor Lecomte claims
21 to have taken from a label or from the body undergoing
22 the autopsy was 73 kilograms and 172 centimetres. Yet
23 I think you tell us that these figures come from
24 the same labels, or should do. Is that right?
25 A. What I can explain now is that the staff member from

49

1 the IML, the handler, I would say, he is first weighing
2 and taking the height of the body, but then it is
3 re-measured and re-weighed on the table, on the autopsy
4 table, by Professor Lecomte.
5 What you have to remember is that Mr Paul had
6 suffered severe trauma, with the tibias being broken, so
7 maybe that can explain this 2 to 3 centimetres of
8 difference.
9 Q. Actually it is a 5-centimetre difference, Mr Mules. But
10 why would you, when you are there to record events, and
11 Professor Lecomte record different heights?
12 A. The reference I make on this report -- being an
13 assistant to the post-mortem examination, the reference
14 I make, I refer to the figures being present on the
15 bracelet, on the tag, on the label.
16 Q. Can you explain to me, Mr Mules, how a dead man would
17 lose 3 kilograms in weight?
18 A. I think it is rather -- it is not a losing of weight; it
19 is rather a mistranscription, and you should ask
20 Professor Lecomte or, also, the one who initially
21 originally received the dead body.
22 Q. Thank you.
23 Now you told us during your evidence, Mr Mules, that
24 autopsies are subject to very strict protocol. Is that
25 right?

50

1 A. Yes, absolutely.
2 Q. Professor Lecomte was instructed by the investigating
3 magistrate to take two identical batches of samples.
4 Can you explain to us why Professor Lecomte did not
5 carry out her instructions according to strict protocol
6 and take two identical batches of samples?
7 A. The two sampling has been properly done. One has been
8 done during the autopsy and the other, if I remember
9 well, has been done the following Tuesday in
10 the presence of the magistrate, the instructing
11 magistrate, who even filmed the scene.
12 MR KEEN: Well, there are a number of different things
13 there, sir. First of all, the interpreter did not
14 translate the question's reference to the instruction of
15 the investigating magistrate. I wonder if we could have
16 up [INQ0001652] so that we can get --
17 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: It is very important in this area
18 to have absolutely accurate translation.
19 MR KEEN: I am concerned, sir, and I do note that that was
20 not referred to. Can we have [INQ0001652] up?
21 Now, if we go to the middle of that page, if we come
22 down further, you will see that this is an instruction
23 of 31st August 1997 from the state prosecutor.
24 THE INTERPRETER: It has been translated.
25 A. I confirm that it has been translated, but maybe

51

1 I misunderstood.
2 MR KEEN: And do we --
3 A. I am not managing, I am approving the autopsy. It is up
4 to Professor Lecomte, who is acting according to her own
5 consciousness, and she knows what she has to do.
6 Q. Of course, Mr Mules. I understand that. But you will
7 notice that the direction from the prosecutor on
8 31st August is to take samples of blood and, if
9 necessary, of the internal organs in two identical
10 batches. You see that, Mr Mules?
11 A. Due to this specific instance, it was judicious at that
12 time to plan for several samples, for the examinations
13 and various exams that could happen and could be carried
14 out afterwards.
15 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: The translator is speaking very,
16 very quickly and I personally am having some difficulty
17 in picking her up.
18 MR KEEN: Can I ask a simple question to try to clarify?
19 Mr Mules, do you know -- and if you don't, just tell
20 us -- why Professor Lecomte did not carry out her
21 instructions when there was supposed to be a strict
22 protocol about these autopsies?
23 If you don't know, just tell us.
24 A. I do not know.
25 MR KEEN: All right. Now do you recall being taken to

52

1 London for three days to be interviewed by the
2 Metropolitan Police in connection with their
3 investigation called "Operation Paget"?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. During your three-day interview with them, you were
6 asked about the autopsy. I wonder if we could have on
7 the screen [INQ0002007 - read out in court].
8 If we can go to the top paragraph, and if we can
9 perhaps bring that into focus for those in Paris, I will
10 read it and I wonder if the interpreter can just
11 translate. It is not easy to follow.
12 It begins by pointing out that Professor Lecomte had
13 already carried out the external examinations of the
14 Princess and Dodi Al Fayed. Then you are saying that
15 it was also your job to assist Lecomte during
16 the autopsy with whatever she required of you and to
17 write a statement at the conclusion of it.
18 A. The procedure makes the fact that if there is a police
19 officer assisting at autopsies, what we call in France
20 "an assistant in attendance to a medical examination",
21 then at the end there is a report being made by this
22 police officer which is putting on a piece of paper
23 the conclusions which have been reached by the doctor,
24 by the practitioner.
25 Q. I follow, but if we look further on, you say that you

53

1 explained that as the body samples were taken during
2 this autopsy, as with any other autopsy, it is the job
3 of the identificateur to seal these samples.
4 "He said that it should be part of his overall
5 function to place the exhibits under seal. However,
6 Lecomte did not follow this protocol and insisted on
7 overall control herself."
8 Can you explain why Professor Lecomte did not follow
9 the protocols with regard to blood samples?
10 A. I cannot tell you. It is only her who could tell you.
11 I was just attending and notifying what happened,
12 but everything which is dealing with the internal
13 procedures of IML and the role of the professor,
14 I cannot have any weight on that.
15 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Can you help about whether
16 Professor Lecomte usually followed the protocols and
17 simply did not on this post mortem?
18 A. She always followed them. Professor Lecomte is one of
19 the major reference in Paris and in France for
20 post-mortem examination and she is managing the IML
21 quite strictly, and she expects from all her team
22 members to be as accurate as she is.
23 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Did you ask her why she was not
24 following the protocols on this occasion?
25 A. You should ask her.

54

1 MR KEEN: If we can go just a little further, Mr Mules?
2 If we can have up [INQ0002008 - read out in court], which is also part
3 of your statement to the Metropolitan Police. If we go
4 to the top paragraph, it begins by saying "He ...", and
5 that is a reference to yourself, Mr Mules, because this
6 was taken as a note by two police officers, you said
7 that:
8 "... normally the term 'X homme' or 'X masculin' is
9 used on documents such as these when the identity of
10 the deceased is not known or in doubt. He [meaning
11 yourself, Mr Mules] could not account for why the sample
12 of blood sent to Ricordel for blood/alcohol examination
13 was marked 'XM', but said that 'XM' means 'X masculin'.
14 He said that this is probably a simple case of the
15 identificateur forgetting to add the name of
16 'Henri Paul'."
17 A. Yes, absolutely. That is what I said.
18 Q. But do you recall this morning, Mr Mules, that you told
19 us that when you were present at the autopsy, the blood
20 that Professor Lecomte was taking was being put into
21 prelabelled bottles with Henri Paul's name on it. Do
22 you remember telling us that?
23 A. Yes, absolutely.
24 Q. Very well.
25 A. That is what I said.

55

1 Q. Now I would like to go to the second paragraph on this
2 page of the statement if it could be highlighted. It is
3 the second sentence where you say:
4 "Whilst describing the post mortem of Henri Paul,
5 Mr Mules said that he understood that whilst it was
6 taking place, Ricordel had come into the room and taken
7 two of the blood samples which had been analysed
8 quickly. When challenged [and it means, Mr Mules, when
9 you were challenged by the Metropolitan Police about
10 that] and presented with Ricordel's own account ...", it
11 says that you clarified that you had not actually seen
12 Ricordel but had been told this by Professor Lecomte.
13 Mr Mules, you are supposed to be present at
14 the autopsy. Did Professor Ricordel come in and take
15 blood samples when you were there or did he not?
16 A. I did not see it. It is when I have been heard by
17 the magistrates that I wanted to clarify things.
18 Q. Well, can you explain why did Professor Lecomte ask you
19 to say that Professor Ricordel had come in during
20 the autopsy and taken away two blood samples?
21 A. It was to explain and justify where these blood samples
22 went because maybe there was a gap in between the time
23 when I went out and the time when Professor Ricordel
24 went in.
25 Q. That is, you say, why Professor Lecomte asked you to say

56

1 that Professor Ricordel had come in during the autopsy,
2 to collect blood samples?
3 A. She did not ask me to tell that. She told me that, and
4 it is because I was heard by the magistrates for this
5 instance, this specific instance, that I tried to
6 understand what I was asked about.
7 Q. Well, what Professor Lecomte said about
8 Professor Ricordel could not have been right, could it?
9 A. I do not know. I cannot answer you. There is a lot of
10 confusion in this case. I wanted to know the truth
11 because I was involved in this case, so I tried to
12 remember as far as I knew.
13 Q. Very well. Mr Mules, we are told that on different
14 occasions Professor Lecomte has said that at this
15 autopsy she took three blood samples or that she took
16 five blood samples but that she took them from
17 the haemothorax, from the chest. Do you understand?
18 A. I ignore the origin of the sampling. She did what she
19 had to do. Once again, I am not a doctor, I am not
20 a physical doctor, so I can't interfere with what she
21 has to do.
22 Q. I understand that, Mr Mules, but we are advised by --
23 THE INTERPRETER: We still have the document on the screen.
24 MR KEEN: We can take that down for the moment.
25 THE INTERPRETER: Thank you.

57

1 MR KEEN: We have been advised by Professor Shepherd,
2 Mr Mules, that having examined photographs of the
3 autopsy and re-examined them as recently as
4 14th January 2008, he noticed that before Henri Paul's
5 chest was opened up so that haemothorax blood could be
6 taken, there were visible at least one and potentially
7 two glass vials or jars containing blood. If you can
8 just understand that that is what we heard. Now --
9 A. What do you mean?
10 Q. If you wait just a moment. Can you help us, Mr Mules,
11 as to where this blood came from or from whom it came?
12 A. I would like to see the photo, if possible, the picture.
13 Q. I would be happy for you to examine it, but assuming
14 Professor Shepherd, who has given evidence and is an
15 expert pathologist, is right about what he has
16 identified, can you help us as to where this blood came
17 from and from whom it came?
18 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, he said he would like to
19 see the picture.
20 MR KEEN: Of course. But assuming the Professor is right,
21 because his evidence on this wasn't challenged --
22 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: He does say that he wants to see
23 the picture and I think it is fair that he should see
24 the picture before he answers the question, if that can
25 be achieved.

58

1 MR KEEN: I understand that Mr Mules is down to return to
2 give evidence, although he is only "AR" on the second
3 listing. I am content to leave it there for the moment
4 so that he can examine the photograph. So I will not
5 insist on the question at this stage, sir, and just
6 reserve my position.
7 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Right. It would obviously be
8 better if the photograph could be seen by him in person
9 in Paris, rather than over the videolink.
10 MR KEEN: Absolutely. I have no difficulty with that, sir.
11 I did not understand anyone to challenge
12 Professor Shepherd's evidence about what was seen in
13 the photograph.
14 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: No, no, but it may be that by
15 seeing the photograph, it will trigger his memory and he
16 is able to help us.
17 MR KEEN: I am content with that.
18 Mr Mules, I will move on from that for the moment
19 and we will let you look at the photograph in due
20 course.
21 Just on one point. If we have on the screen
22 [INQ0004440], we are told that this is
23 Professor Ricordel's report. If we look at his report,
24 do we see -- and this is confirmed elsewhere -- that he
25 records actually having obtained the blood sample that

59

1 he examined not on 31st August 1997, but on
2 1st September 1997? Do you see that, Mr Mules?
3 A. That is a part of the inquiry which is totally -- which
4 is not for my report. I do not know about it. You
5 should ask those professors. I do not have to know
6 that.
7 Q. What we need to do is ask Professor Lecomte and
8 Professor Ricordel about what was happening with these
9 samples. Is that what you are telling us?
10 A. Absolutely. It is not part of my job. It is not part
11 of the police job. It is part of the IML staff members'
12 job. I do not have to know about that.
13 MR KEEN: Subject to the reservation on the examination of
14 the photograph, I would rest my cross-examination there.
15 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes.
16 MR CROXFORD: Can I try to assist? I will not trouble with
17 the French. You have two witnesses carded for this
18 afternoon. I think that the pace at which I might be
19 able to go with this witness is not that at which
20 I would have hoped for, but the matters which I would
21 have put yesterday or today could be put -- indeed could
22 effectively perhaps in the optimal way be put -- to
23 Mrs Andanson in particular when she comes to give
24 evidence because it is matters of inconsistency and I am
25 not so interested in teasing the officer about whether

60

1 or not they conducted the perfect investigation as
2 trying to get to the substance of what happened.
3 I am entirely in your hands, sir, but if I could
4 stand over my cross-examination, invite you through
5 the usual channels to review how much time is allotted
6 to Mrs Andanson to make sure that I do at last get a go,
7 then it may be that the most convenient thing would be
8 to take your witnesses this afternoon -- I know there is
9 a finance witness, for example, which is likely to be
10 fairly complicated --
11 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, apart from anything else,
12 Mr Mules cannot be here this afternoon, I am told.
13 MR CROXFORD: In that case I have just wasted a minute
14 explaining my suggestion.
15 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Mules, are you able to give us
16 another quarter of an hour?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes. No problem.
18 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you. Now you want to stand
19 over your cross-examination?
20 MR CROXFORD: I think it is probably the sensible thing,
21 sir. He is due to be coming back, but there are
22 a couple of matters which I could usefully use ten
23 minutes on if you will allow me to do it that way.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes, certainly.
25 MR CROXFORD: Is that convenient?

61

1 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes certainly.
2 Questions from MR CROXFORD
3 MR CROXFORD: First of all, I will deal with the discreet
4 topic of the Alma Tunnel and then one other point.
5 Mr Mules, my name is Ian Croxford and I act for
6 the Ritz Hotel.
7 A. Pleased to meet you.
8 Q. Now, do remember that between 19th and 21st July of
9 2006, you came here to London to help the Metropolitan
10 Police with their investigations?
11 A. To help and also to be a consultant, to assist
12 the police who asked me to come, and I came voluntarily.
13 Q. You did. You spent three days with a Mr Grater and, in
14 particular, with a Mr Easton, who speaks very, very good
15 French. Do you remember?
16 A. Absolutely.
17 Q. You explained to them, amongst a number of things, your
18 first involvement in the early hours of the morning on
19 Sunday 31st August 1997 in the crash scene at
20 the Alma Tunnel. Correct?
21 A. It was my role and duty.
22 Q. You explained to them how your Brigade Criminelle was
23 the best of the best in the French police.
24 A. I still confirm it today.
25 Q. You also explained to them how you had been appointed by

62

1 the director of judicial police, Mr Riou, to be the case
2 officer or procedurier.
3 A. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely, because there was none of
4 my captains being there on the scene, but due to my
5 experience and my past in the Brigade Criminelle, the
6 director of the judicial police asked me and appointed
7 me there.
8 Q. Your experience included dealing with a number of
9 complex investigations, didn't it?
10 A. Mainly complex.
11 Q. In the work which you did personally, you tried to take
12 care to get things right?
13 A. All the cases that we had to deal with at the
14 Brigade Criminelle are done very rigorously, whatever
15 the person who is involved in the case, whether a VIP or
16 not. That is why the instructing magistrate asked for
17 the Brigade Criminelle to deal with this case because
18 they knew that it would be highly rigorous.
19 Q. Amongst the first things that you did once you took
20 charge of the scene was that you personally carried out
21 what has been described by you as a "thorough scene
22 investigation"; is that right?
23 A. Any case which is taken by the Brigade Criminelle,
24 whether it is a crime scene or a crash scene or any
25 other type of other scene, are done with the same

63

1 rigour. That is our brand image, on authority.
2 Q. You personally walked through the tunnel, identifying
3 and locating physical evidence such as debris and
4 tyre marks which you thought might be associated with
5 the crash. Is that right?
6 A. That is part of my role. My first role is to describe
7 in writing, as I said, but also through pictures. And
8 you have this picture book that I made, which is putting
9 the (inaudible) out of the scene for the very sequences.
10 Q. You concentrated your efforts in looking for physical
11 signs in the part of the tunnel going back from where
12 the Mercedes was crashed in the direction from which
13 the Mercedes had come. That is right, isn't it?
14 A. My duty as a procedurier, as it is said in French, is to
15 notice things in order to explain what happened. So
16 that is why I collected tyre marks, debris, et cetera.
17 It is goes through the creation of a map, a map that you
18 have, and I paid particular attention to the captions in
19 order for things to be really checked.
20 Q. Whilst it is possible that there were odd, small pieces
21 of debris that you perhaps did not see, if there were
22 any concentrations of debris, you looked at those
23 carefully, didn't you?
24 A. If it is microsize, yes, certainly I did not see them.
25 Q. Quite right. But if it was bigger than microsize and

64

1 particularly if there were lots of pieces or several
2 pieces of debris together, you would have looked at them
3 carefully, sir?
4 A. Yes, obviously. Yes, of course. As I explained you,
5 the first thing I am doing is to gather and to group all
6 the debris logically, and from the first probable site
7 where we had the fresh debris.
8 Q. And then you were assisted by experienced French traffic
9 police officers to carry out the detailed physical work
10 of collection, weren't you?
11 A. Yes, obviously. I worked with the department which was
12 specialised in the traffic accidents and what we do is
13 what we call a scanning of all the road from the car in
14 the one way and also in the opposite way of the tunnel,
15 and I scanned all the parts of the road to find any type
16 of debris.
17 Q. Were you satisfied that by the time you and those
18 specialist traffic officers had finished your work in
19 connection with debris, that all relevant identified
20 debris had been collected up?
21 A. Yes, absolutely.
22 Q. I wonder, please, could Mr Foley put on the screen --
23 Mr Mules, look please at a document that is going to be
24 put on the screen.
25 I cannot give you an INQ number for this, I do not

65

1 have it, but it has come through your disclosure. Can
2 you see there -- Mr Foley, if you focus in on the top of
3 the page, top half that is -- Mr Mules, do you recognise
4 this as a report made by you on 31st August 1997
5 reporting back on your initial work?
6 A. This is not my report and my document, and you can see
7 it. It is a report coming from the headquarters and
8 the author of this report is Mr F Pilotta. You have the
9 name on the left.
10 Q. In August of 1997, did you or did you not see this
11 document?
12 A. Of course I saw this document because, as you can see
13 from the very top of the document, it is an internal
14 document coming from the headquarters which was
15 dispatched to many departments such as the director,
16 such as the magistrate, such as the prefet. And it is
17 some kind of (inaudible) report, when you have all
18 the chronology of the event.
19 Q. Very well. Just two questions then, sir.
20 Mr Foley, can we look at the second half of that
21 front page, please, just down below the box?
22 Sir, do you see "00H50", top left-hand corner?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Then the third paragraph down below:
25 "Le chauffeur aurait ete ..."

66

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Does that say, Madame Interpreter, "The chauffeur would
3 have been blinded by flashes from the journalists
4 (paparazzi) that followed them and would have lost
5 control of his vehicle"?
6 THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
7 Q. Did that represent, sir, at that stage, your
8 department's understanding of events?
9 A. That is the first document. Nothing has been checked
10 yet and that is why you have the use of the conditional
11 sense in French. There is no certainty. It is
12 the first opinion before any legal inquiry has been
13 started.
14 Q. Third page, please, Mr Foley. It looks like that
15 (indicating).
16 I would like the very bottom part, where it says
17 "Mr Dekeyser", and then there are some words in bold.
18 Mr Mules, the permanent director or the director of
19 the day was apparently a man called Mr Dekeyser. Do you
20 recall that?
21 A. He was the police officer on duty for that weekend.
22 Q. Very well. Madame Interpreter, can you see, the words
23 at the bottom in bold are what I want you and
24 the witness to look at. Is this correct?
25 "Mr Dekeyser specifies the circumstances of the

67

1 accident ..." (Much French spoken).
2 Wait for the question!
3 A. This type of document has no legal value. You see that
4 you have the word "maybe". It is only assumptions.
5 Q. Can we just see what it was that the director wrote?
6 "While exiting the Ritz Hotel, the Princess's car
7 was caught in a chase by some journalists on a motorbike
8 and maybe in a car. Under the Alma Bridge, the
9 chauffeur of the Princess's Mercedes, who was driving at
10 a fast pace, swerved for an unknown reason and hit the
11 underground pillar."
12 Firstly, is that what was written?
13 Madame Interpreter, is that an accurate
14 interpretation --
15 THE INTERPRETER: Obviously, it is written.
16 MR CROXFORD: Thank you.
17 A. If you would prefer my semantic analysis, it is that
18 nothing has been confirmed; it is just an opinion,
19 waiting for checkings to be performed.
20 Q. Yes, but even at this stage, the understanding of your
21 director and your department was, was it not, that while
22 exiting the Ritz Hotel, the Princess's car had been
23 caught in a chase involving at least a motorbike and
24 potentially a car?
25 A. Everybody knew, since the very arrival of the Princess

68

1 in the morning at Le Bourget Airport, that some
2 paparazzi of a certain press followed and chased them.
3 MR CROXFORD: Sir, it is all I wanted to ask on that aspect.
4 You have been very indulgent. I am grateful.
5 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Mules, thank you very much for
6 your time this morning. I understand that you are
7 returning I think early next month to give evidence
8 introducing statements from various members of
9 the paparazzi. We cannot finish everything we want to
10 ask you today.
11 A. I am sorry, but it is not planned that I should come
12 back.
13 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, we have understood from
14 the French authorities that arrangements were being made
15 or indeed had been made for you to return to give
16 evidence on another issue. We would be very grateful if
17 you would, anyway.
18 A. I did not know it at all. You are just learning me
19 that. I had no instruction on that.
20 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, thank you very much. We
21 will take it up with the French authorities and
22 hopefully they will very soon be in touch with you.
23 Thank you for your time this morning. I am sorry
24 you are having a late lunch. Five past two, members of
25 the jury.

69

1 MR HORWELL: Sir, we will need at least 20 to 30 minutes on
2 this topic.
3 (1.05 pm)
4 (The short adjournment)
5

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